Energy return in running shoes explained (2025) • Hacker News Board

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#31

Post by iamacyborg » Tue, May 19, 2026, 1:19 PM UTC

vintermann wrote: post #26

iamacyborg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re very good for the sport though? Modern shoes allow runners to train more, which is one of the primary reasons we’ve seen world records get absolutely slammed since they were introduced. Just look at how may people can consistently run 100+ mile weeks with modern shoes vs before.

Is that good in itself though? Imagine if it was allowed to compete with full blown jumping stilts.

If you care about the sport and want to see people running even faster, yes.

Anecdotally we see more injuries in the form of bone stress than we used to, because modern shoes allow for greater training loads that aren’t quite as hard bounded by muscle tolerance as flats but without seeing any data I suspect the balance of injury has shifted rather than the general incidence of injuries.

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#32

Post by iamacyborg » Tue, May 19, 2026, 1:21 PM UTC

askvictor wrote: post #28

iamacyborg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re peddling mostly nonsense. Modern shoes don’t force you to heel strike.

True, but they do make it a lot easier. But the heel strike itself isn't the problem, it's the over striding that modern shoes also encourage

Do you have any evidence that modern shoes encourage over striding?

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#33

Post by penetrarthur » Tue, May 19, 2026, 1:23 PM UTC

le-mark wrote: post #12

I’ve been on this “get back in shape” journey for almost two years now. About a year ago I started walk jog intervals two days a week, then three, then four. I ramped up slowly (maybe too slow) specifically to save my knees. I recently got some asic nimbus shoes. These are running shoes with inch thick soft soles that squish noticeably when you walk or run. They also add a lot of instability and I really feel it in m…

Good job on getting into running! I would highly suggest you find some "exercises for runners" videos on youtube and find some exercises that are comfortable for you to do. Focus on the exercises that are asymmetric(lunges etc). You can do most of them at home and it takes 30 minutes twice a week. You will feel the results in less than two weeks. Most of the people who run consistently do those kind of exercises because running is very demanding on your body and if stabilizer muscles are weak, the impact will go to your joints and tendons.

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#34

Post by kccqzy » Tue, May 19, 2026, 1:24 PM UTC

le-mark wrote: post #12

I’ve been on this “get back in shape” journey for almost two years now. About a year ago I started walk jog intervals two days a week, then three, then four. I ramped up slowly (maybe too slow) specifically to save my knees. I recently got some asic nimbus shoes. These are running shoes with inch thick soft soles that squish noticeably when you walk or run. They also add a lot of instability and I really feel it in m…

If you feel instability, you should try stability shoes. They really help reduce overpronation.

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#35

Post by iamacyborg » Tue, May 19, 2026, 1:25 PM UTC

frereubu wrote: post #14

vee-kay wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not wrong though. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5G93ta66xSk The tribals from the Sierra Madre Mountains in Northern Mexico - called the Tarahumara or the Rarámuri people - are considered to be among the best endurance runners in the world. Some of the First Nation tribes of the Americas (especially their messengere who ran hundreds of miles to deliver messages) and the traditional African tribals (such as the Ma…

I'm sort of in general agreement with you about healthy running practices, but I don't think endurance running - just running for long distances with no eye on time - is a good comparison with performance running - where timing is key, even if you're running log distances. It's to do with the purpose of the running. Eliud Kipchoge only broke 2 hours because of the shoes he was wearing, which are only used for one rac…

> It's to do with the purpose of the running. Eliud Kipchoge only broke 2 hours because of the shoes he was wearing

That’s a vast oversimplification.

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#36

Post by dwd » Tue, May 19, 2026, 1:31 PM UTC

le-mark wrote: post #12

I’ve been on this “get back in shape” journey for almost two years now. About a year ago I started walk jog intervals two days a week, then three, then four. I ramped up slowly (maybe too slow) specifically to save my knees. I recently got some asic nimbus shoes. These are running shoes with inch thick soft soles that squish noticeably when you walk or run. They also add a lot of instability and I really feel it in m…

Your knees will thank you when you're older.

Wife currently has a knee issue and the physio has her doing more hip bridges and lunges to build up the supporting muscles. Had a hamstring injury that caused issues by compensating for it and running incorrectly which put additional pressure on the knees.

I used to run in Asics Nimbus and currently just wear them all day. Switched to these bright red Novablast 5s for running and they are noticeably better. I do a mix of Norwegian 4x4 Hiit or a steady fast jog a few times a week.

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#37

Post by bcjdjsndon » Tue, May 19, 2026, 1:39 PM UTC

danielbln wrote: post #23

le-mark wrote: post #12

I’ve been on this “get back in shape” journey for almost two years now. About a year ago I started walk jog intervals two days a week, then three, then four. I ramped up slowly (maybe too slow) specifically to save my knees. I recently got some asic nimbus shoes. These are running shoes with inch thick soft soles that squish noticeably when you walk or run. They also add a lot of instability and I really feel it in m…

There are two schools of thought here, but I personally subscribe to the notion that thick squishy soles are an anti-pattern. Your foot/calves/leg are an amazing spring, you don't need a layer of foam to shield you from the impact of the ground (and one can argue that at 2-3x body weight during impact, a bit of foam/rubber won't really shield you from anything), on the contrary these thick soles prevent you from feel…

Some people just don't walk properly. I work with a girl that walks on the balls of her feet, I've found out it was due to her parents not liking noise on wooden floors, but she gets tired shins when she runs, which can't be right

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#38

Post by angiolillo » Tue, May 19, 2026, 1:59 PM UTC

Fascinating. My main takeaway is that running technology is primarily driven by World Athletics' 40 mm stack limit and prohibition on physical springs or pistons but not on advanced foams. If they relaxed those constraints then number-chasers would happily show up to races in 150mm foam clouds, jumping stilts, exoskeleton leggings, etc. Alternately, if they started restricting races to 20 mm stack heights that might result in different world records, especially for long-distance races.

As some who runs trails in minimalist shoes for enjoyment I do appreciate that the author acknowledged that many people prioritize things besides speed and efficiency: fun, fitness, injury prevention, being outdoors, socializing. Because if I'm actually picking footwear for speed and efficiency the fastest shoes I own are my Crankbrothers with a bicycle attached to the bottom.

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#39

Post by thesamethrowawa » Tue, May 19, 2026, 2:01 PM UTC

It's eye-opening when a subject you have first hand deep personal knowledge of is posted on Hacker News. You realise how confidently people post about topics they know absolutely nothing about.

Yes, you've read born to run, well done. It it's a good story, not a handbook of practical advice. Telling 2:30 marathon runners doing hundreds of miles a week that running shoes are bad and they should be going bare foot. OK.

Re: Energy return in running shoes explained (2025)

#40

Post by nickcoury » Tue, May 19, 2026, 2:11 PM UTC

philipallstar wrote: post #9

Raztuf wrote: post #2

Don't show this to Christopher McDougall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_to_Run_(McDougall_book)

> He writes, some claim hyperbolically, that "[i]n Tarahumara land, there was no crime, war, or theft. There was no corruption, obesity, drug addiction, greed, wife-beating, child abuse, heart disease, high blood pressure or carbon emissions. They didn’t get diabetes, or depressed, or even old." This and other statements in the book have been criticized by some authors. "Some claim hyperbolically" - masterfully under…

I visited the Tarahumara and ran the race in his book 4 times. I know Chris personally and he's certainly a storyteller and not a scientist to put it simply. I was similarly bothered by these kind of claims and he wasn't the first to make them. I did some research papers in college on this years ago.

Surprisingly, these claims are more true than false, though in no way completely true. There are some fascinating cultural mechanisms that enable each one. But they were also largely dependent on their society being extremely small and living in remote hillsides and only coming together for certain social events. Not very applicable to modern society.