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The Zulip Foundation

blog.zulip.com

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Re: The Zulip Foundation

#31

Post by JoshTriplett »

nightski wrote: post #15

Gotta love the frontier labs annihilating open source projects left and right either by acquiring them directly or stealing the teams.

I appreciate that in this case, the developers who were hired away considered it their responsibility to keep the project and company going independently of themselves, and ensuring it could continue to employ the ~dozen developers who are staying with it to maintain and develop the project.

That seems substantially better than the usual approach (of either an acquihire leading to an immediate shutdown or an acquisition leading to an inevitable "our incredible journey" shutdown later).

Re: The Zulip Foundation

#32

Post by sergiotapia »

bro just say: "Anthropic is going to pay me a beefy salary and it's exciting!" what's this salad come on: "I’m stepping back from Zulip to join Anthropic because of its remarkable commitment to the responsible development of AI for the long-term benefit of humanity."

it's pretty funny

Re: The Zulip Foundation

#33

Post by pulga28 »

palata wrote: post #11
nicholasjbs wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've known Tim personally for over a decade. I'm certain that he's not doing this because he wants more money.

> I'm certain that he's not doing this because he wants more money. There are many reasons to change job. The pay is always one of them (if you don't work for money, it's not called a job, is it?). > join Anthropic because of its remarkable commitment to the responsible development of AI for the long-term benefit of humanity. Obviously, it's better to believe that what Anthropic is doing is good for humanity when you…

I was a part of the Zulip project as a contributor and have contributed > 100 commits to `zulip/zulip` and also admire Tim a ton. But, leaving you're life's work to work on "long-term benifit of humanity" at Anthropic doesn't sound right to me. I am guessing Tim isn't going to work on safety research or interpretability side of Anthropic, that's not his expertise. Hence, leaving Zulip to help build anthropic a new software is meh. There are labs who actually care about people and aren't pretentious like Anthropic. Nevertheless, wish him, alya and rest of the team all the best; they are genuinely nice people. I don't know if I'll have interest in sticking to the project anymore though (+ I am not sure about other core member's status like Anders -- that will affect my decision too).

Re: The Zulip Foundation

#34

Post by tabbott »

nightski wrote: post #15

Gotta love the frontier labs annihilating open source projects left and right either by acquiring them directly or stealing the teams.

As we do our best to explain in the post: The Zulip project is very much not being annihilated.

There are 220 people from all over the world who have contributed 20 or more commits to Zulip, and thousands more who've contributed code, volunteer translations, ideas, thoughtful questions, and in so many other ways.

Personally, I find remarks like this to be extremely disrespectful to all of those wonderful people and their open-source work.

Re: The Zulip Foundation

#35

Post by wmf »

gm678 wrote: post #18

Not sure what to term this as it's an acqui-hire without the acquire, but why did Anthropic want to poach most of Zulip/Kandra's team?

Anthropic only poached 1/4th of the team. (Presumably the top 1/4th.) They're doing the same to SaaS companies but it's less visible.

Re: The Zulip Foundation

#36

Post by cyberax »

tabbott wrote: post #28
aidenn0 wrote: post #25

I've long thought that we need a name for what Zulip is other than "team chat." IMO it's different qualitatively than slack/mattermost/discord/teams &c.

Yeah I've often had the same thought! Ideas are very much appreciated. I do like our current "organized team chat" quite a bit better than the original "group chat", which would often result in confusion with WhatsApp and its equivalents.

Naming is hard! Thank you for working on Zulip, it's truly impressive!

Re: The Zulip Foundation

#37

Post by palata »

sneak wrote: post #30
nightski wrote: post #15

Gotta love the frontier labs annihilating open source projects left and right either by acquiring them directly or stealing the teams.

You can’t annihilate a project by hiring its devs away. The project is still out there and the code is still open source. This idea that devs owe their continued free service to an open source project they released in the past is a crazy one.

I don't think that this is what the parent says. The parent doesn't complain about the devs moving to Anthropic (presumably to work on something they find exciting and get a good salary for it).

The parent complains about Anthropic hiring devs working on interesting projects, just because they have enough money for that.

> You can’t annihilate a project by hiring its devs away.

I also disagree with that: the codebase is still out there, but what is "a project"? Many (most?) open source projects stop evolving when their devs go away.

Re: The Zulip Foundation

#38

Post by dijit »

Long-time Zulip advocate; I've (successfully) pushed for it at two organisations, so genuinely, thanks for building something worth that effort.

One thing I'd like to understand better: how does the Foundation intend to keep its mandate narrow? The Mozilla comparison in the post is one I find cuts both ways... technically excellent product, foundation that drifted considerably from "make the browser good."

The advisory board has some names I associate with community governance work beyond the purely technical. That's not necessarily a problem, but I'd love to hear how the Foundation thinks about scope creep, and whether there's anything structural that keeps the focus on shipping great software.

Re: The Zulip Foundation

#39

Post by wegwerper »

nightski wrote: post #15

Gotta love the frontier labs annihilating open source projects left and right either by acquiring them directly or stealing the teams.

Very unfortunate for Zulip as a project, and indicative of what a bubble we are in.

The founders take the money, and when the AI bubble pops we'll be left holding the ashes.

Re: The Zulip Foundation

#40

Post by kennywinker »

Kuinox wrote: post #22
nightski wrote: post #15

Gotta love the frontier labs annihilating open source projects left and right either by acquiring them directly or stealing the teams.

How dare OSS devs get paid.

It’s not really “OSS devs getting paid” if they stop being OSS developers to get paid
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