Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

museum.eecs.yorku.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 96 posts

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#31

Post by bch »

buescher wrote: post #12

I got a VIC-20 when I was about 12? Jim Butterfield loomed impossibly large over all things Commodore at that time. One of the first things I typed in on it was his TINYMON, a <1kbyte “monitor” (for some reason resident debuggers were frequently called monitors in early microcomputing) before I had any idea what it was.

I didn't realize he was Canadian - as a child I got so much mileage out of Machine Language for the Commodore 64[0]. I used to think of my program, get out sheets of graph paper and flip through a table of opcodes I wanted to use, get their decimal rep, and write out the list of numbers in a long column, then go to my computer and POKE them into place and watch a spite come to life, or the screen change colour. So much fun had with that book.

[0] https://archive.org/details/Machine_Language_for_the_Commodo...

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#32

Post by cf100clunk »

b112 wrote: post #26
mountain_peak wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> central Canada This is part of the issue; the GTA is solidly in the east (the centre of Canada is in Manitoba), but when someone says, "eastern Canada", one automatically thinks "Nova Scotia", but Toronto is a relatively short drive from New York City. That being said, I understand that in most cases, "central" is referring to population, industry, finance (not fashion - that's Montrėal). Regarding the site, the ex…

It's referring to the fact that Ontario and Quebec were Upper and Lower Canada, and as the country grew, things to the "West" and "East" were seen in that light, even though it doesn't make sense centuries later.

Sports leagues mirror those commmon conceptions. Toronto is always put in the East alignment of pro sports leagues. Apart from a rough patch for the CFL in the 1980s when the Winnipeg Blue Bombers were moved over to the East, they and the Jets have always been in the West.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#33

Post by stackghost »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #4
mewse-hn wrote: post #2

"We will examine this movement by looking at Toronto, the only city in Canada"

If Canada historically has a complex around his relative relationship to the USA, the same holds outside of central Canada, maybe with the exception of pockets that punch above their weight in terms of representation (like PEI). This is both funny (TSN: Toronto Sports Network) and concerning (current AB and SK alienation). Personally I'm first a Canadian and second a proud Albertan, and find it maddening that like th…

>like the British Empire treated it colony Canada, so does the country treats us

This persecution complex seems bizarre. The only entities exploiting Alberta are the oil companies who offshore billions of dollars in profits. Instead of growing their sovereign wealth fund the way Norway does, Albertans allowed themselves to be exploited.

Edit: I see now that when I wrote "created a fund like Norway" it was taken as implying Alberta didn't have a fund, when what I meant was "created one that is similar to Norway's fund". Edited for clarity.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#34

Post by [deleted] »

mountain_peak wrote: post #19
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toronto is also a relatively short drive from Chicago. It's actually far more similar to Chicago than to coastal NYC. It is really geographically "midwest" by US standards, not "east" When I was in elementary school in Alberta in the 80s we called this "central Canada." And that's how I still think of it. But there's a growing trend especially in Alberta to call this "down east" which is in my mind a very political w…

Indeed - Chicago is considered "midwest" even though it is geographically in the eastern US. Maybe that's New York City-centrism from long ago? Edmonton is as far west from the geographical centre of Canada as Toronto is east. I think it's a a bit of a stretch to call the GTA "geographically central". Economically and demographically, definitely. The Weather Network, which really should consider geographic markers on…

[deleted]

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#35

Post by hnthrowaway0315 »

Yhippa wrote: post #9

I didn't grow up in Canada, but I miss these days where the universe of knowledge about computer tech and hardware wasn't impossibly large. It was possible to meet with people in meatspace and have real discussions with them. It's possible now, but it doesn't have the same vibe.

Also the hardware and software are so complicated, that probably no single person on this earth can carry any 64-bit CPU into his brain -- unlike back in the 8-bit and 16-bit eras, good programmers NEED to do that. I think the year 2,000 was sort of the thresh line.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#36

Post by dismalaf »

stackghost wrote: post #33
skeeter2020 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Canada historically has a complex around his relative relationship to the USA, the same holds outside of central Canada, maybe with the exception of pockets that punch above their weight in terms of representation (like PEI). This is both funny (TSN: Toronto Sports Network) and concerning (current AB and SK alienation). Personally I'm first a Canadian and second a proud Albertan, and find it maddening that like th…

>like the British Empire treated it colony Canada, so does the country treats us This persecution complex seems bizarre. The only entities exploiting Alberta are the oil companies who offshore billions of dollars in profits. Instead of growing their sovereign wealth fund the way Norway does, Albertans allowed themselves to be exploited. Edit: I see now that when I wrote "created a fund like Norway" it was taken as im…

1. Alberta has a wealth fund.

2. The amount Alberta has sent in equalization payments would have allowed us to have a far larger wealth fund than Norway has.

Also, you are aware that, no matter who exploits the oil, the Alberta government receives royalties from it, right?

Also, most of the foreign companies have joint ventures with Canadian entities and a lot of the money does stay within Canada and Alberta.

And even with all the equalization Alberta has sent, we're still the richest province by far. We just know we could be much richer still...

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#37

Post by stackghost »

dismalaf wrote: post #36
stackghost wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>like the British Empire treated it colony Canada, so does the country treats us This persecution complex seems bizarre. The only entities exploiting Alberta are the oil companies who offshore billions of dollars in profits. Instead of growing their sovereign wealth fund the way Norway does, Albertans allowed themselves to be exploited. Edit: I see now that when I wrote "created a fund like Norway" it was taken as im…

1. Alberta has a wealth fund. 2. The amount Alberta has sent in equalization payments would have allowed us to have a far larger wealth fund than Norway has. Also, you are aware that, no matter who exploits the oil, the Alberta government receives royalties from it, right? Also, most of the foreign companies have joint ventures with Canadian entities and a lot of the money does stay within Canada and Alberta. And eve…

>Alberta has a wealth fund.

Since the 70s, yes, and it's minuscule because the oil companies socialize the risks and privatize the profits, less some token royalties. Norway's was established in the 90s and is multiple orders of magnitude larger, because they don't allow big oil to fuck them over.

>The amount Alberta has sent in equalization payments would have allowed us to have a far larger wealth fund than Norway has.

You are being fed a narrative.

Equalization payments are taken from federal tax revenues. Every Canadian pays taxes according to the same graduated tax rate schedule, whether Albertan or not.

Alberta does not "pay into" equalization payments. Provinces do not "send money to other provinces". That's simply not how the program works.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#38

Post by kazinator »

buescher wrote: post #12

I got a VIC-20 when I was about 12? Jim Butterfield loomed impossibly large over all things Commodore at that time. One of the first things I typed in on it was his TINYMON, a <1kbyte “monitor” (for some reason resident debuggers were frequently called monitors in early microcomputing) before I had any idea what it was.

The "monitor" term is not from early microcomputing but from early computing. I believe that "monitor" referring to a display monitor, and referring to a machine language debugger all have the same origin: they date back to directly monitoring the electrical signals from equipment to observe its workings. The use of "monitoring" in profiling (e.g. gprof and its gmon.out file, etc) is also the same.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#39

Post by cmrdporcupine »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #29
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general when I think of "eastern" for both Canada and the United States I think "coastal." Yes, I guess Vermont is considered northeast and it's not on the Atlantic, but it's really not far from it. And that's ... definitely not Ontario. Unless you count the lakes, which I mean, sure, why not? Or another definition of eastern might be "along the Appalachian range". And again, def not Ontario. Quebec is more up for…

I think in terms of time zones. Toronto's time zone is Eastern Time, so it's in the East.

You need to think about just how long you'd be driving east from Toronto before you finally hit the Atlantic. (And not just the widening of the St Lawrence at Quebec City, but let's say... where the water is fully salty and tidal... which is apparently around Matane, directly north of New Brunswick).

Like, 20 hours of driving. And then to get to e.g. Halifax or Sydney NS, which aren't even our furthest east points, another what.. 15? 16? hours of driving. And then a ferry out to Newfoundland?

Toronto is really quite quite far west of the easternmost points in the country. Calling it "east" seems odd.

Especially when you consider when people were settling this country they were doing so by going up the St Lawrence and into the lakes. Or had taken the railway from Halifax, etc. They had traveled a long way before they got here. It wouldn't have felt "east" to them at all.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#40

Post by PeterWhittaker »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #15
mountain_peak wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> central Canada This is part of the issue; the GTA is solidly in the east (the centre of Canada is in Manitoba), but when someone says, "eastern Canada", one automatically thinks "Nova Scotia", but Toronto is a relatively short drive from New York City. That being said, I understand that in most cases, "central" is referring to population, industry, finance (not fashion - that's Montrėal). Regarding the site, the ex…

Toronto is also a relatively short drive from Chicago. It's actually far more similar to Chicago than to coastal NYC. It is really geographically "midwest" by US standards, not "east" When I was in elementary school in Alberta in the 80s we called this "central Canada." And that's how I still think of it. But there's a growing trend especially in Alberta to call this "down east" which is in my mind a very political w…

Ah, our geography. I live in Arnprior, about half an hour west of Ottawa (technically, my house is a couple of clicks from the Ottawa border, but we don't really start counting until the burbs).

Anyway. I live closer to James Bay than DC. Let that sink in a moment (and sink is what you will do if you attempt the drive).

Post reply on HN