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What happens when you post a real Monet and say it's AI?

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Re: What happens when you post a real Monet and say it's AI?

#31
post #13
post #6

Being able to imitate Monet doesn't make you Monet. AI can't create anything original.

This is a real Monet.

I know, but it could be AI-generated as well, because people can't tell them apart. The point was that even if AI could imitate Monet perfectly, it's not Monet. It's a worthless test.

Re: What happens when you post a real Monet and say it's AI?

#32
post #7

AI art enjoyers and missing the point of art: name a better duo. No one has ever claimed AI cannot imitate a Monet, but however good the imitation, it still isn't art any more than a Xerox of a painting is art. This is the exact reason why most people feel bad after discovering that what they felt was work of human ingenuity, is just a fake, a simulacrum of it. The creation of art, arguably the most human of instinct…

> All this proves is that most people cannot tell if that picture is a Monet or not.

It proves that people don't actually know what they like about "art" or even why they think some art is good, and some is bad.

These people criticized and trashed a widely regarded, famous painting because they were told that it was a cheap imitation.

If the AI generated a real imitation and the Met hung it on their walls I guarantee these same people would celebrate it just the same because they are told that it is real.

Re: What happens when you post a real Monet and say it's AI?

#33
post #7

AI art enjoyers and missing the point of art: name a better duo. No one has ever claimed AI cannot imitate a Monet, but however good the imitation, it still isn't art any more than a Xerox of a painting is art. This is the exact reason why most people feel bad after discovering that what they felt was work of human ingenuity, is just a fake, a simulacrum of it. The creation of art, arguably the most human of instinct…

I remember this old episode of Doctor Who where the Doctor scoffs at a postcard with the Mona Lisa on it and derides souless "art made by computers."

As a digital artist, of course I rolled my eyes at the time, but these days I just keep thinking about that storyline more and more.

We've basically transitioned to a world where digital art is almost the default, but I think the world is going to value physical art much more highly in the coming years.

Re: What happens when you post a real Monet and say it's AI?

#34
post #32
post #7

AI art enjoyers and missing the point of art: name a better duo. No one has ever claimed AI cannot imitate a Monet, but however good the imitation, it still isn't art any more than a Xerox of a painting is art. This is the exact reason why most people feel bad after discovering that what they felt was work of human ingenuity, is just a fake, a simulacrum of it. The creation of art, arguably the most human of instinct…

> All this proves is that most people cannot tell if that picture is a Monet or not. It proves that people don't actually know what they like about "art" or even why they think some art is good, and some is bad. These people criticized and trashed a widely regarded, famous painting because they were told that it was a cheap imitation. If the AI generated a real imitation and the Met hung it on their walls I guarantee…

> It proves that people don't actually know what they like about "art" or even why they think some art is good, and some is bad.

That's because those are famously difficult questions to answer.

Re: What happens when you post a real Monet and say it's AI?

#35
post #9

Two interesting replies: It’s not a physical painting made by a well known artist. It’s trying to hard to be a late Monet. How much of our opinions are driven by context, rather than the actual subject? If Monet’s work is not so great without the context, is it still great? Or is context a critical piece of the art itself? Do we need to view a Monet piece within the scope of other Monet pieces, other artists, time pe…

Yeah I agree, in art a lot is driven by context: there's so many paintings or songs that are not outstanding in itself, but the full human context around it makes it significant.

Re: What happens when you post a real Monet and say it's AI?

#36
It's important to remember that there are many Monet paintings that critics don't like, or that aren't 'monet enough'. He painted fast to sell and make money and many think some paintings aren't as finished as they could be. He himself destroyed a number of water lily paintings before an exhibition [1], and again a lot of the work he did when he was partly blind due to cataracts.

[1] https://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28...

Re: What happens when you post a real Monet and say it's AI?

#37

Very good. We need more of these experiments in all areas. Hopefully it helps people to at least be more conscious of their bias.

I do think this reveals peoples' biases, but not in the way you probably do. I think Monet just wasn't as good as his renown purports. EDIT: I doubt this experiment would go similarly for a Caravaggio or a Michelangelo.

Not GP, but I think that's exactly the kind of bias that needs exposing. People are prone to holding a few experts/artists/objects/products in high regarding, defending/denying any flaws, while pushing down on those with less heritage.

Re: What happens when you post a real Monet and say it's AI?

#38
post #9

Two interesting replies: It’s not a physical painting made by a well known artist. It’s trying to hard to be a late Monet. How much of our opinions are driven by context, rather than the actual subject? If Monet’s work is not so great without the context, is it still great? Or is context a critical piece of the art itself? Do we need to view a Monet piece within the scope of other Monet pieces, other artists, time pe…

For an edge case: people will be impressed and interested if you tell them that a piece was painted by an elephant, and then suddenly unimpressed if you tell them you were lying about that. So one function of art is as a sort of experiment, like the art is experimental data, where authenticity matters, because the interest is in the demonstration of a perspective, the reactions of an artist in the situation. Consider noir: a movie is much more plausibly authentic noir if it was made before about 1963, that is, if it was made by actors and directors who actually wore those hats (and lived through other tropes). Later on, it's imitation, regardless of how accurate: the experimental data is invalidated, it doesn't (seem to) mean so much.

Re: What happens when you post a real Monet and say it's AI?

#39
post #6

Being able to imitate Monet doesn't make you Monet. AI can't create anything original.

I loathe the blasted copyright washing machine as much as the next intellectually honest person, but:

> AI can't create anything original.

Can we? I mean, don't we base our output on experience and reprocess references + memories of things past to create what we deem as "new"?

Re: What happens when you post a real Monet and say it's AI?

#40
post #25
post #6

Being able to imitate Monet doesn't make you Monet. AI can't create anything original.

Define «original». Under many definitions, where novel composition of existing knowledge or techniques is counted, it certainly can.

Well, there's the Einstein test: can AI figure out general relativity if it's trained only on knowledge up to 1915 or so, before it was discovered. Similarly, you could do a Monet test: train AI on everything before Monet and try to get it to create paintings similar to Monet.

Original is something that is out of the data distribution. AI can't do anything original, because it's job is to imitate the data distribution.

Originality in itself is not hard, because pure noise is original. It should be original and beautiful.

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