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50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

fortune.com

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Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#31

Post by bix6 »

nvitas wrote: post #17

just as a thought experiment, say you're an entrepreneur, how would you solve this problem? whether it AI, Data Centers, EVs...I'm seeing this problem more and more, we need more energy/power. I'm curious to see what others think are possible viable solutions.

Nuclear has a ton of VC interest right now. Or the robinhood dude with his space beaming stuff.

I think anything you can do to add to the energy mix is worthwhile atm. Does America produce any domestic solar panels? I’m talking wafers not assembly.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#32

Post by happytoexplain »

ageitgey wrote: post #7

It's weird to read an article about how AI is ruining Lake Tahoe, with a map illustrating the problem, when the map itself has the world's most generic "100% generated by Claude" UI ever. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the article using the Claude map. It's just deeply funny somehow.

I'd love for us to get away from this trope of ever-increasing umbrella categories that you are discouraged from criticizing if you participate in it, very commonly marked by usage of the term "funny"/"hilarious" to imply hypocrisy.

The world is big and complicated. "AI" is the biggest umbrella category we have ever seen in modern civilization. There's nothing inherently wrong with criticizing AI while using AI. There's nothing inherently wrong with criticizing a country while living in that country. There's nothing inherently wrong with criticizing a company while using that company's service. Etc.

"Hypocrisy!" is a favorite accusation of those with the same-but-opposite bias as the one they are calling out. It's the easiest attack to construct, because you can point to anything and omit the complication of reality.

And people are hypocritical! That's part of why it's such an easy thing to claim. But it's also the reason you need a stronger argument than just stating the claim. You need to separate yourself from the endless sea of low-quality internet snipes that rely on simple accusations of hypocrisy.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#33

Post by jeffbee »

nvitas wrote: post #17

just as a thought experiment, say you're an entrepreneur, how would you solve this problem? whether it AI, Data Centers, EVs...I'm seeing this problem more and more, we need more energy/power. I'm curious to see what others think are possible viable solutions.

Entrepreneurs know exactly how to solve this issue: panels, batteries, and wires. But it isn't so simple when you face 20 years of permitting between BLM, USFS, tribes, states, counties, cities, and individual litigation. If you want an example of how bad this is look at the permitting timeline for SunZia in New Mexico and its transmission line to California.

Gas pipelines don't have the same problem because the federal government exercises centralized permitting and eminent domain powers for fossil fuels under a 1938 law, and there is no corresponding statute for electric lines.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#34

Post by tt24 »

mystraline wrote: post #30
vasco wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Breaking: Smartphone producers known to rely on slave labor keep doing it. Posted from my iPhone"

That isnt the slam you think it is. https://truthout.org/art/mister-gotcha/

Hypocrites just can’t let go of this comic. They love it. It’s like they have one thing that they hold onto for dear life. I don’t think they’ll ever stop posting it lol

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#35

Post by bos »

jeffbee wrote: post #9

Same content: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nearly-50-000-lake-tahoe-1709... TL;DR Libertarian separatists, who went so far as to name their utility "Liberty Utilities", organized their utility in 2009 under a temporary agreement with Nevada, which was extended twice, and now after almost two decades of failing to invest in their own generating assets they will be deprioritized by their ex-partner.

Your backstory is complete nonsense.

Liberty Utilities has nothing to do with libertarian separatists. It's a brand name of Algonquin Power & Utilities Corp, a boring Canadian infrastructure conglomerate that buys regulated water, gas, and electric systems across North America. They bought this chunk of rural California grid from NV Energy in 2009. That's it.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#36

Post by jeffbee »

jmalicki wrote: post #20
dylan604 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not 100% true though. In Burbank, CA the power is city owned. https://www.burbankwaterandpower.com/

In the bay area, Santa Clara has city owned power, and residents pay something like a third of what the rest of the bay area does per kilowatt hour. Part of the inspiration for why SF is trying to kick out PGE and have municipal power.

SVP delivers over 90% of their energy to commercial customers, making it a bit of a special case. However it does prove the hypothesis that large-scale consumers tend to lower, not raise, the local retail price for energy.

As for SF, there is no real sense in which they are trying to kick out PG&E. While there is and always has been a vocal group of SF residents who want a free pony, when it comes down to paying the bills SF has voted in 12 separate elections to not establish a municipal utility. They have a demonstrated history of failure to invest in their own utilities stretching back 100 years.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#37

Post by cj »

WarmWash wrote: post #19
ageitgey wrote: post #7

It's weird to read an article about how AI is ruining Lake Tahoe, with a map illustrating the problem, when the map itself has the world's most generic "100% generated by Claude" UI ever. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the article using the Claude map. It's just deeply funny somehow.

My read is People complain about AI in public, use it heavily in private, complain about datacenters in public, slam their fists about usage limits in private. In short, typical human behavior, want to have their cake and eat it too.

It’s like using social media to spread your message about how social media is bad and addictive.

You don’t really have another option unless you want to ostracize yourself from the society you’re trying to change.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#38

Post by vasco »

mystraline wrote: post #30
vasco wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Breaking: Smartphone producers known to rely on slave labor keep doing it. Posted from my iPhone"

That isnt the slam you think it is. https://truthout.org/art/mister-gotcha/

That's subjective my friend. The fact that you draw an opinion doesn't make it more valid. I think there's merit to confronting people on high horses to their own lies.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#39

Post by mystraline »

tt24 wrote: post #34
mystraline wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isnt the slam you think it is. https://truthout.org/art/mister-gotcha/

Hypocrites just can’t let go of this comic. They love it. It’s like they have one thing that they hold onto for dear life. I don’t think they’ll ever stop posting it lol

Im sure you are very intelligent.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#40

Post by slg »

tt24 wrote: post #34
mystraline wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isnt the slam you think it is. https://truthout.org/art/mister-gotcha/

Hypocrites just can’t let go of this comic. They love it. It’s like they have one thing that they hold onto for dear life. I don’t think they’ll ever stop posting it lol

It's truly ironic the way this comic is now primarily used as part of the same behavior it's criticizing.
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