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Clusters become personal (like PCs did)

aranya.tech

31–40 of 62 posts

Re: Clusters become personal (like PCs did)

#31

Wouldn’t it be cheaper / less complex to scale vertically (eg a large workstation or medium size bare metal server) instead of using clusters? My understanding is that clusters are primarily useful when you want to share a resource from a pool across unpredictable usage, which becomes a moot point once the cluster is personal.

Scale isn’t the only reason. Sometimes you want resource isolation and self-healing, something that is useful if you want a personal swarm of AI agents.

Re: Clusters become personal (like PCs did)

#32
post #2

The article assumes there are people who want clusters. But a single Linux VM in the cloud can scale pretty far. Separate VM's for different apps works well for isolation. Why do I need a cluster?

> Why do I need a cluster? Uptime, self healing, reproducibility, separating the system from app. There's probably a half dozen more. K8s comes with resource consumption tax certainly but for anything beyond the trivial it's usually justified. > Separate VM's for different apps works well for isolation Sounds inefficient along with a lot more work doing the plumbing than simply writing a 100 lines of yaml.

Who wants to deal with YAML? Sometimes the easiest way to set up a VM is by talking to your phone:

https://commaok.xyz/ai/just-in-time-software/

I mean, I don't do that, but I'll type a prompt.

Re: Clusters become personal (like PCs did)

#33
post #26

Clusters are almost never the right answer for most problems: https://yourdatafitsinram.net/

You're drawing an incorrect conclusion from that site. Aside from the fact that "fitting in RAM" is not the only criterion for needing a cluster, the fact that it's possible to fit data into RAM on a single machine doesn't mean that's the most cost-effective, practical, or sensible solution. A big advantage of clusters, and horizontal scaling in general, is the ability to easily dynamically scale to meet demand. If y…

Not all clusters are elastic. Cloud infrastructure can be, but HPC setups before the cloud were not.

Re: Clusters become personal (like PCs did)

#35

I have an irrational soft spot for Apache Mesos. I loved the separation of the resource management from the scheduling. Note to self: do not rabbit hole on this. Hm. Maybe mesos is the manager for my agent sandboxes. No! Bad lowbloodsugar!

How are resource management distinct from scheduling in Mesos?

Re: Clusters become personal (like PCs did)

#36
post #33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're drawing an incorrect conclusion from that site. Aside from the fact that "fitting in RAM" is not the only criterion for needing a cluster, the fact that it's possible to fit data into RAM on a single machine doesn't mean that's the most cost-effective, practical, or sensible solution. A big advantage of clusters, and horizontal scaling in general, is the ability to easily dynamically scale to meet demand. If y…

Not all clusters are elastic. Cloud infrastructure can be, but HPC setups before the cloud were not.

Even in a physical hardware, on-premise scenario, it's still easier to scale horizontally than vertically in almost all cases, for all the reasons I mentioned. That's a big reason why Kubernetes was adopted at an unprecedented pace at medium to large organizations - because it helps manage that approach.

Re: Clusters become personal (like PCs did)

#37
post #33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're drawing an incorrect conclusion from that site. Aside from the fact that "fitting in RAM" is not the only criterion for needing a cluster, the fact that it's possible to fit data into RAM on a single machine doesn't mean that's the most cost-effective, practical, or sensible solution. A big advantage of clusters, and horizontal scaling in general, is the ability to easily dynamically scale to meet demand. If y…

Not all clusters are elastic. Cloud infrastructure can be, but HPC setups before the cloud were not.

that's..kind of not true. they weren't elastic in the sense that you never had to think about how big they were. but you had say 64k nodes, and people would launch jobs with 1000 of them, or 10000, or if if they could clear the decks all of them. or if they were just debugging, maybe 5 of them.

so I guess idk what you mean by 'elastic' here.

Re: Clusters become personal (like PCs did)

#38
post #2

The article assumes there are people who want clusters. But a single Linux VM in the cloud can scale pretty far. Separate VM's for different apps works well for isolation. Why do I need a cluster?

if you run firecracker inside the rented cloud vm, and you let a few of them run, and perhaps interact with each other, you have essentially created a cluster of microvms that's hosted on a single machine

as argued by OP, you can see this happening with exe.dev, and less explicitly with sprites.dev

Re: Clusters become personal (like PCs did)

#39

I don't see how an operating system can work for a cluster. You can have more than one CPU and more than one storage connected to one mainboard and that works because the interconnect fabric is very fast. We don't have have the possibility to connect different computers at the same kind of speed that would let them work together seamlessly.

we built machines with all kinds of approach to this. ones with giant shared memories and memory networks. the tera MTA famously had uniform memory access, since all of the memories were on the other side of a network from the CPU, and hardware managed threads tried to hide that latency.

we built machines with RDMA that allowed fast one-sided transfers between memories at a decent fraction of the memory bandwidth. and operating systems that ran services to present a unified operating system interface on top of that.

there is a whole history of distributed operating systems if you're interested

Re: Clusters become personal (like PCs did)

#40
post #2

The article assumes there are people who want clusters. But a single Linux VM in the cloud can scale pretty far. Separate VM's for different apps works well for isolation. Why do I need a cluster?

> Why do I need a cluster?

I run a single-node K8s cluster on a dedicated server because it's way cleaner to manage than the previous mess and mix of docker compose + traefik routing + random stuff installed as package on the host.

I can create "vhosts" for practically anything in a declarative manner, and if the cluster blows up, I have 5 small scripts to bootstrap it and all I need is `kubectl apply -k .`.

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