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What's Wrong with AI?

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Re: What's Wrong with AI?

#31

Post by max51 »

scarmig wrote: post #19
raincole wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's a very strange way to view the economics. Yes, AI uses energy. But using energy itself isn't an inherently bad thing. It'll also incentive people to invest more in renewable energy too. > Additionally, many residents who live near AI data centres are seeing increased electricity bills due to the amount of electricity those data centres use.5 That's right, trillion dollar companies are using you to subsid…

His argument proves far too much: it would apply even if every data center built an entirely renewable dedicated solar farm to power it. After all, energy is fungible: the newly built solar farm could be going to help consumers transition to renewable. There is a root issue here: prices of nonrenewables don't incorporate the costs of climate change. But that's a much broader issue, and otherwise the market price syst…

>it would apply even if every data center built an entirely renewable dedicated solar farm to power it. After all, energy is fungible: the newly built solar farm could be going to help consumers transition to renewable.

No, because that solar farm would have never been built in the first place without the datacenter. You either get both or you get none of them. It's completely different than using an existing solar farm that was already there before anyone started planning for that datacenter

Re: What's Wrong with AI?

#32

Post by arm32 »

Arch485 wrote: post #20
skiing_crawling wrote: post #9

I don't understand the water argument? I thought places like data centers would use something akin a closed loop and a radiator. Are they taking water from the town pipe, heating it once, and then launching it into the sun? Is there some other use for the water other than cooling?

Most AI data centres use evaporative cooling. One of the linked sources talks about this; that 7 billion cubic metres metric is how much water gets evaporated into the air. (which makes that water no longer usable for drinking/watering crops/etc)

Don't forget about my favorite part of chilled water loops—the toxic chemicals that lowest bidders are contracted to dispose of.

Source: Environmental and Energy Study Institute (EESI)

> Evaporation Process: Roughly 80% of the water evaporates, cooling the servers, while minerals, microorganisms, and chemical additives (like anti-corrosion or anti-scaling agents) remain in the remaining 20% liquid, which is later discharged.

Re: What's Wrong with AI?

#33

Post by meeton »

> Asking ChatGPT a question uses approximately 10x as much energy as a traditional search engine

Traditional search engines use vanishingly little energy, and 10x vanishingly little is still very small.

> It is estimated that AI alone will evaporate between 4 and 7 billion cubic metres of water per year in 2027

ChatGPT has 1 billion users every week, so AI is adding 1% to their water usage?

Re: What's Wrong with AI?

#34

Post by tim333 »

>Do you think that people like Sam Altman, Elon Musk, or Dario Amodei really have our best interests at heart...

The great thing about market competition is the bosses may be bastards but they are forced to make good products so as to compete with other companies, hence pretty good cars and satellite coms from Musk for example.

I'm cheered that the AI companies have little moat and stiff competition amongst themselves.

Re: What's Wrong with AI?

#35

Post by semiquaver »

Arch485 wrote: post #25
semiquaver wrote: post #22

> AI Psychosis So much written about this but nothing about anti-ai-psychosis, which this article is a clear example of. There is no possible response to any of the issues raised would make a whit of difference to the author, since they have made a quasi-religious and certainly political determination that anything associated with AI is bad and should be avoided. So the article itself can be basically ignored, it’s n…

I disagree, if you'd like to propose solutions to these problems as well as an implementation strategy, I'd be very happy to hear them! Source: am the author.

You are the person I’ve written off as unreachably deluded per my comment above, so I don’t see much purpose in engaging with you.

Re: What's Wrong with AI?

#36

Post by hunterpayne »

kamranjon wrote: post #14
hunterpayne wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason for that. Its not especially true. In fact, the more renewables you deploy, the more natural gas you use. And that's before you consider that most renewables are sited so poorly that it likely doesn't reduce CO2 emissions at all. This guy also seems to think that water is somehow destroyed when its used for cooling. This also isn't true. I really wish the author hadn't started with these claims that…

"the more renewables you deploy, the more natural gas you use." -- source? "most renewables are sited so poorly that it likely doesn't reduce CO2 emissions at all" -- source?

Renewables are variable. To keep the grid balanced, you need quick dispatch-able power source. That's natural gas. As for the siting, look up a solar albino map and overlay where most PV is deployed. QED. Don't post about topics you clearly know nothing about. Seriously, these are topics you would consider, "knowing the first thing about power". Better to let people think you are ignorant than hitting the post button and showing the entire Internet your ignorance.

Re: What's Wrong with AI?

#37

Post by Geventax »

waffletower wrote: post #29
semiquaver wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you are also inveighing against industrial agricultural use of water, which uses orders of mangitude more water in significantly more wasteful ways.

Shouts "AI wastes water!" with food in my mouth while eating an almond butter sandwich with a pizza lined up next.

I need food to live I do not need AI to live

Re: What's Wrong with AI?

#38

Post by kamranjon »

hunterpayne wrote: post #36
kamranjon wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the more renewables you deploy, the more natural gas you use." -- source? "most renewables are sited so poorly that it likely doesn't reduce CO2 emissions at all" -- source?

Renewables are variable. To keep the grid balanced, you need quick dispatch-able power source. That's natural gas. As for the siting, look up a solar albino map and overlay where most PV is deployed. QED. Don't post about topics you clearly know nothing about. Seriously, these are topics you would consider, "knowing the first thing about power". Better to let people think you are ignorant than hitting the post button…

If you can’t be bothered to provide sources for any of your claims, when responding to an article that actually provided sources for its claims, we can just assume you’re making it up. When you become emotional when someone asks you to provide even a sliver of evidence, I have to assume you’re just spreading misinformation that aligns with your views. If you want to discuss in good faith, I’m here.
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