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Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

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Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#32
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former Eagle Scout here -- I agree a bit with this analysis. The absolute best parts of it for me were the high adventure camps, backpacking, etc. The absolute worst where the Monday meetings. Depending on the vibe of the troop your activities bias one way or the other.

I'm currently scoutmaster and that is my thought. Camping is fun, but we do that once a month - what should we do the other times that is fun

My Troop spent a lot of the non-adventure time motivating us to learn skills that we would need on adventures. Knot tying, first aid, camp cooking, paddling technique, carpentry, etc. Many of the leaders were current or former Navy personnel (this was in a town with a maritime school), so they often told engaging stories about how they needed these skills. There were also low-commitment activities in town that children enjoyed: campfires with smores, tours of historical sites (old forts), bike rides, “hikes” around town, art projects, fund drives, etc.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#33

The AI writing patterns here are obnoxious on both a sentence by sentence level and at the level of overall meaning and content. Because a machine wrote this, lacks human intelligence, so is not worth reading.

I read the text myself and checked it with pangram, it's 95% plus human written (people hate hundred percent so the discount). So I'm asking myself if it is ragebait or Idiocracy. I know that's harsh to say, but throwing in written by AI is harsh as well. (Analysis: Pangram believes that this document is fully human-written https://www.pangram.com/history/c59610e0-aba7-469c-b762-21f7...)

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#34

Looks like membership peaked in 1971. Add that chart to the list: https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

I assume that site is implying it's Nixon's fault? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock

He certainly contributed, but I personally would not agree that it was all his fault.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#35
post #7

> The cost falls on both ends of Scouts BSA. That program is optimal for middle schoolers, but middle schoolers are not trusted to own it. They are managed by older youth instead. High schoolers fare no better. Instead of receiving programming built around autonomy, peer challenge, advanced outdoor adventure, and responsibility suited to their age, the vast majority are trapped in a middle-school program where their…

the idea of mixed ages learning together doesn't seem inherently bad

it's not. the problem is that the teenagers are not given any real authority that would be appropriate for their age. but then on their 18th birthday they suddenly become assistant scoutmasters with the expectation of real authority that comes with that title. so they become leaders simply because of their age, and not by merit or experience. in germany a patrol is a self functioning unit with their own meeting times or spaces. a patrol leader is someone who has been shown to be mature and patrols are able to plan and execute their own events and trips without an adult needing to be present. in the US that rarely happens. that's not just a BSA problem though, it is a problem of american culture in general. anyone under the age of 18 is treated like a child.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i disagree with you. The author is pointing at deeper cultural issue of lack of candor that unaddressed allows things like sexual abuse to flourish. It is an organization that is not willing to tackle serious or face hard things head on. Yeah and their product sucks, so improved marketing won't save it.

> Its historic advantages—brand recognition, inexpensive outdoor access, and the prestige of Eagle Scout—once masked program defects. I don't think the product sucked at all I think the packaging of that product was terrible. My father took me to a scout meeting when I was 13. Afterwards, he asked if I was interested. I said no - they really come across as Nazi Youth combined with religious fanaticism, and neither ap…

One of the issues is that their historical strengths became weaknesses. Scouting integrated into existing infrastructure, which is why religion is such a prominent aspect. (It’s also why as mentioned elsewhere the politics around the LDS church became so recently important.) Boy Scouts was mostly and overlay that slotted on top of church youth programs. (Also other secular groups but that was smaller)

The shifting of religious practice in the US impacted scouting as well. Mainline Protestantism and Catholic Churches are on the decline - that’s the backbone. In the Catholic environment I grew up in, Boy Scouts kept kids engaged after communion with the parish.

The other issue with the model is that the local organization leadership reflected the old model. (ie. It’s a bunch of white dudes) The most traditional, growing communities who would be attracted to scouting with Catholic and Episcopal communities are Hispanic, Filipino and in my area Indian.

It is sad. I was involved from age 7-14 (when we moved) and loved it. But institutions only survive when they can grow themselves.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#38
post #24

As scoutmaster the article feels wrong. There are things that I'm sure are wrong but I don't know what they are. the article doesn't seem right either though.

As a scoutmaster you have probably noticed the problems go much deeper:

1) The BSA national organization sized itself in the 1970s based on the idea that membership would continue to increase forever. The national organization is grossly oversized relative to the needs of the troops. The result is that the national organizations needs are at odds with the troops needs. The national organization is primarily focused on funding itself, including its debt, which creates a net burden for troops. 2) This net burden manifests itself in multiple ways at the troop level including using troops for fund raising efforts for the national organization where little if any of the funds make it back to the troop, increasingly irrelevant mandatory merit badge requirements to appease national donors who want to make their mark (reducing scout choices) and increasingly expensive costs for camps and equipment. 3) Lack of a solid development program for Scoutmasters. Few men in corporate America truly know how to manage or lead anymore. This rot started in the 1970s when computer programs replaced middle management and operations was largely outsourced. Outdoor skills have eroded as the population became more urbanized. Scoutmasters can’t teach what they don’t know and the national organization hasn’t filled that gap. For example compare BSA with NOLS for quality of their skills training. 4) Without a strong selection and development program for scoutmasters there is no prestige. Corporate America’s doesn’t see it as a place to develop leadership from but a distraction. That means that the people the scouting organization can draw from are the very, very good and the very, very bad. 5) Sexual abuse is a significant problem for any youth development organization and that fact was ignored by the BSA for way too long. The majority of perpetrators are men. As an organization with a declining pool of volunteers to draw adult leadership from the ratio of abusers who volunteer is going to be uncomfortably high. Courts and the court of public opinion have shown that there is no limit to the liability for this type of behavior. This is a strong signal that American’s simply do not want youth programs where this kind of thing can happen. 6) Being an adult leader of a youth organization comes with breathtakingly high amount of personal liability. Simply moving a car full of youth from one place to another risks financial devastation. The BSA does little to nothing to mitigate that risk and the only other way to mitigate that is through 1:1 youth to parent involvement where children are under direct, parental supervision at all times. This is antithetical to a youth lead program like the BSA.

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The LDS wanted it to continue to be more of a faith-based organization, and also objected to combining boys and girls together into the same program. Ultimately they left the organization at the end of 2019, taking about 20% of the membership with them.

You don't have to be Mormon or even religious to think that there's value in having a youth program that is specifically male-only, such that you'd be highly motivated to abandon a youth program if it stopped being male-only.

> You don't have to be Mormon or even religious to think that there's value in having a youth program that is specifically male-only, such that you'd be highly motivated to abandon a youth program if it stopped being male-only.

Are you going to expand on this at all? What is the value in Scouts being male-only?

Re: Scouting's Real Crisis Is Not Marketing. It Is Decades of Neglect.

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i disagree with you. The author is pointing at deeper cultural issue of lack of candor that unaddressed allows things like sexual abuse to flourish. It is an organization that is not willing to tackle serious or face hard things head on. Yeah and their product sucks, so improved marketing won't save it.

> Its historic advantages—brand recognition, inexpensive outdoor access, and the prestige of Eagle Scout—once masked program defects. I don't think the product sucked at all I think the packaging of that product was terrible. My father took me to a scout meeting when I was 13. Afterwards, he asked if I was interested. I said no - they really come across as Nazi Youth combined with religious fanaticism, and neither ap…

When I was a child I was made to endure an organization called "Stockades". This was -- in the 1980s -- an extremely religious version of scouting. It... was not fun. After a few weeks of this, of literal begging and crying to not go, finally my parents relented. Neither of them had considered what a "stockade" really was: a place to barricade yourself inside for protection OR a literal prison. Neither seem appropriate for a child learning to take part in the world.
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