"court made a judgment in his favor in the amount of $10,672.88, the amount Gawiser paid for FSD, including taxes and court fees." should include interest as well
Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him
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Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him
#32That idea of a simultaneous small claims day is brilliant. I hope somebody is vibecoding that site up right now.
Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him
#33The "Full" in "Full Self Driving" was one of the giveaways. It's like packaged food labeled with "Real" ("Real cheese" etc)
Not sure I agree with your second sentence, at least in the US. I may see "cheese product" or "dairy product" or "cheese flavor" but if it says real cheese, it's real cheese. My favorite example was seeing "onion (then in tiny text 'flavored') rings"
They even banned the term "soy milk"
It's now called "non dairy soy beverage" on every carton.
Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him
#34From what I've seen on YouTube the cars do drive themselves. This seems more like the type of thing with AI where people change the goal posts of what AI means. Just because a car did not slow down in a school zone, that doesn't mean that the car wasn't driving itself.
By that logic it’s ok if the car slams itself against a concrete wall - just because it failed to stop in time doesn’t mean it wasn’t driving itself. Self driving cars are supposed to obey the same rules as human drivers.
Well ... yes. By that logic it is the case. It applies to humans too - if a human slams their car into a concrete wall then the human was still driving the car. They did a bad job of it, but they were in fact driving.
A car being driven autonomously doesn't imply much about the quality of that driving. They're still going to make bad decisions and have accidents, just like humans do (a friend of mine died slamming their car into a tree). There is probably some minimum where we'd say that it isn't really driving because it can't do anything right, but modern self driving systems are past that.
Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him
#35That idea of a simultaneous small claims day is brilliant. I hope somebody is vibecoding that site up right now.
Is there a fuck-you option by which a large company can force escalating costs on you through small claims? Can they, for example, remove it to a federal court?
Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him
#36From what I've seen on YouTube the cars do drive themselves. This seems more like the type of thing with AI where people change the goal posts of what AI means. Just because a car did not slow down in a school zone, that doesn't mean that the car wasn't driving itself.
This is a common misconception. People tend to think driving is controlling the steering and pedals, so if FSD does those things it must be driving. It's not. Driving is whatever has ultimate responsibility for the vehicle and its occupants. If a cop pulls you over while FSD is enabled, it's not Tesla who's paying the ticket. If FSD has an issue, you're the driver who has to respond. Think of FSD as a very nice cruis…
Sort of how programming isn't the same as writing code — it also involves a bunch of other thing like all the design and planning work.
Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him
#37I recovered ~$250,000 under beverly song act (California lemon law). (My principal and interest back for multiple vehicles) I repeatedly complained it was activating “emergency lane departure” while driving manually, even after disabling the setting. This had the effect of the vehicles swerving towards cross walks or walls. Clearly a software issue but they played dumb and forced me to book service visits and refused…
I’ve had this type of issue on multiple European car brands. Software issues with driver assistance features, which they keep ignoring. Things like sudden unexplained braking, not showing down due to cars stopped ahead, swerving randomly... I accepted it because getting them to cover anything, even physical things, even under warranty. They just come up with self serving guidelines and excuses. Glad you had success.…
I (also in CA) lemon returned a Mercedes EV. Same kind of thing, they could not fix repeated software issues w/ the collision avoidance features.
I called them up, gave a short explanation, and they sent me to their vendor who handles the returns, no issues. Full price (including tax etc) back.
AIUI, they know not to fight, since in CA when they loose, they pay your legal fees.
Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him
#38From what I've seen on YouTube the cars do drive themselves. This seems more like the type of thing with AI where people change the goal posts of what AI means. Just because a car did not slow down in a school zone, that doesn't mean that the car wasn't driving itself.
Those YouTubers are all there to make Tesla look good. It’s a grift. The ones that are honest and show the bad side get kicked out of the Tesla club fast and dogpiled on. Also a school zone is one of the most basic things the car should be able to handle. If it can’t do that, it’s not ready for public use.
>Also a school zone is one of the most basic things the car should be able to handle. If it can’t do that, it’s not ready for public use.
Humans don't always follow the law driving through school zones. And when humans speed through a school zone, the human is definitely driving the car. Are we ready to let humans drive on public roads?
The argument has to go into the magnitude of the problem to get anywhere meaningful.
Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him
#39That idea of a simultaneous small claims day is brilliant. I hope somebody is vibecoding that site up right now.
Is there a fuck-you option by which a large company can force escalating costs on you through small claims? Can they, for example, remove it to a federal court?
I don't think they can, but at the same time they can appeal a judgement that's unfavorable to them. Appeals in small claims allow for having attorneys present, at least in California, and it's another day in court that you'll have to argue your case.
Re: Tesla owner won $10k in court for Tesla's FSD lies. Tesla is still fighting him
#40It's not him they're fighting, it's precedence and the impending flood of lawsuits.
I look forward to the day when this goes further up the hierarchy of US domestic courts, and some final decision is reached ordering Tesla to pay back the money every purchaser of "full self driving" paid for something that is clearly not level 4 or level 5 autonomy.