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Why are there both TMP and TEMP environment variables? (2015)

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: Why are there both TMP and TEMP environment variables? (2015)

#31

Post by ziml77 »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #21
PunchyHamster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they are supposed to be all in .config, problem is many app developers think they are special little boys that deserve its own directory

%LOCALAPPDATA% on Windows. Or better still, use GetAppContainerFolderPath or SHGetKnownFolderPath with FOLDERID_LocalAppData.

I don't know if anyone is actually using roaming profiles, but config should go into the %APPDATA% folder to support that. %LOCALAPPDATA% is for things that shouldn't be synced to different machines, such as caches.

Re: Why are there both TMP and TEMP environment variables? (2015)

#33

Post by archargelod »

analog_daddy wrote: post #17
fredoralive wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the philosophy of the slightly odd suckless people is their projects are mostly configured by changing the source code and recompiling. This is I suppose a similar approach in a modern open source vein. Although their general asceticism makes their projects a bit of an acquired taste I suspect.

Ohh acquired taste it is.. I had two stints with suckless software. First, when i was in early twenties when I had a lot of time in the world, and thought the manliest way to talk to a machine is all through low level C code. Had a whole flow to patch it and heck the code is so well written and commented, i was able to understand it. Then, i guess life happened and i discovered more interesting stuff to spend time on…

> I don’t want to patch it manually or solve merge conflicts

I wonder, is this really such a big problem? How often do people add patches or change their config?

I've configured my st once and haven't touched that build for years. I use only few patches like scrollback, custom colortheme and a "plumb" for few scripts.

I've also had an opportunity recently, to try a "modern" and trendy terminal and I can't see myself switching to something slower (in terms of lag) and using 10x more memory and cpu even when idle for literally zero gain.

Re: Why are there both TMP and TEMP environment variables? (2015)

#34

Post by ninkendo »

Hendrikto wrote: post #23
QuantumNomad_ wrote: post #6

> My recollection is that most CP/M programs were configured via patching. I honestly would have liked that better for a lot of programs than the dotfiles they litter all over my home directory.

If people just followed the XDG Base Directory Specification, config file littering would be a non-issue. More and more projects adopt it, even holdouts like Firefox.

I wonder how many apps actually read the correct XDG environment variables and obey them, versus just hardcoding paths that match their machine’s config paths (typically ~/.config/*)

I almost want to set up a VM that sets up XDG_CONFIG_HOME as ~/.foobar and see how many apps actually respect it, and how many still write to ~/.config.

Re: Why are there both TMP and TEMP environment variables? (2015)

#35

Post by flohofwoe »

fooqux wrote: post #30
zabzonk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could you quote the text you are referring to?

"Rewind to 1973. The operating system common on microcomputers was CP/M. The CP/M operating system had no environment variables. That sounds like a strange place to start a discussion of environment variables, but it’s actually important."

Just a few lines below:

"Over time, programs were written with MS-DOS as their primary target, and they started to realize that they could use environment variables as a way to store configuration data. In the ensuing chaos of the marketplace, two environment variables emerged as the front-runners for specifying where temporary files should go: TEMP and TMP."

And before that there are a few paragraphs describing the migration of applications from i8080/Z80 based CP/M towards x86 based DOS via mechanical translation.

Re: Why are there both TMP and TEMP environment variables? (2015)

#37

Post by [deleted] »

whobre wrote: post #28

OK. I love Raymond’s blog but this is crazy. Microcomputers existed only as a prototype in 1973 (things like Intel’s Intellec dev systems) and there were no operating systems for them. Strictly speaking, Kildall did start developing CP/M in 1973, but at that point it ran only on a simulator on a PDP-10 mainframe. 1979, sure. 1973? Way too early…

[deleted]

Re: Why are there both TMP and TEMP environment variables? (2015)

#38

Post by Uvix »

ziml77 wrote: post #31
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

%LOCALAPPDATA% on Windows. Or better still, use GetAppContainerFolderPath or SHGetKnownFolderPath with FOLDERID_LocalAppData.

I don't know if anyone is actually using roaming profiles, but config should go into the %APPDATA% folder to support that. %LOCALAPPDATA% is for things that shouldn't be synced to different machines, such as caches.

I know we used to use them in our corporate environment. Not sure if we still do, or if they gave up and called OneDrive “good enough”.

Re: Why are there both TMP and TEMP environment variables? (2015)

#39

Post by rendaw »

flohofwoe wrote: post #35
fooqux wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rewind to 1973. The operating system common on microcomputers was CP/M. The CP/M operating system had no environment variables. That sounds like a strange place to start a discussion of environment variables, but it’s actually important."

Just a few lines below: "Over time, programs were written with MS-DOS as their primary target, and they started to realize that they could use environment variables as a way to store configuration data. In the ensuing chaos of the marketplace, two environment variables emerged as the front-runners for specifying where temporary files should go: TEMP and TMP." And before that there are a few paragraphs describing the…

I was curious seeing this thread, and I just looked and don't get it either. AFAICT the CP/M references could have been entirely omitted and nothing in the narrative about TMP and TEMP would change.

Re: Why are there both TMP and TEMP environment variables? (2015)

#40

Post by skydhash »

Hendrikto wrote: post #23
QuantumNomad_ wrote: post #6

> My recollection is that most CP/M programs were configured via patching. I honestly would have liked that better for a lot of programs than the dotfiles they litter all over my home directory.

If people just followed the XDG Base Directory Specification, config file littering would be a non-issue. More and more projects adopt it, even holdouts like Firefox.

I don’t mind ~/.* for config, especially when the config is just one or two files. What I don’t like is programs like go and cargo treating my $HOME as a dumping ground for every file they want to download and/or cache.
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