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Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

dailynk.com

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Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#31

> Unlike North Korea, South Korean society extensively uses loanwords in technology, finance, and culture. English-derived words like “computer,” “café,” and “internet” are ubiquitous in the South but virtually unknown in the North, creating challenges for defectors encountering them for the first time. This is tangential to the topic at hand, but as a Korean learner of ~9 years, it's maddening just how many English…

FWIW, North Koreans also use lots of English-derived loanwords for computer topics, but they may be different from those in the south. Some time ago I made a search interface for a North Korean English dictionary if you want to poke around: https://yorwba.github.io/dic.html/ For example, "file" is 화일 (hwail) instead of 파일 (pail).

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#32
post #30

> Unlike North Korea, South Korean society extensively uses loanwords in technology, finance, and culture. English-derived words like “computer,” “café,” and “internet” are ubiquitous in the South but virtually unknown in the North, creating challenges for defectors encountering them for the first time. This is tangential to the topic at hand, but as a Korean learner of ~9 years, it's maddening just how many English…

This is the same sort of thing as is happening in other languages such as Polish. Many English loan-words are being used when there exist equivalent Polish words, even on the news broadcast on TV.

It happens all the time in English too, not always super broadly though now that English is the lingua franca (and that is a foreign phrase that's aged poorly but has no proper translation!). It's very common to prefer romanized genre names (eg danmei, isekai, xianxia, wuxia) rather than the English equivalents/translations/reverse borrowings.

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#33
post #20

Imo as a Korean speaker, the thing about North Korean Korean is that it sounds much more aggressive, from the words to the general tone. They’re also usually much more direct, and in a lot of North Korean defector stories I’ve read, that has been a common pain point for them.

Is that something new (divergence since the political split), or an older regional dialect thing that is now more obvious due to the political situation?

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#34
post #2

I would have loved to read the version of the article that dove deeper and was not touched by LLM, even if it meant less clear English from the (presumably Korean) author.

It’s not just “touched by the LLM” — it’s literally transformed. /s

I have the same feeling, I skipped reading any paragraph that starts with “not X, Y”.

It’s possible the author has so little proficiency in English that without LLMs they would be hardly intelligible. Unfortunately I developed an allergic reaction to LLM-generated texts…

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#35
post #31

> Unlike North Korea, South Korean society extensively uses loanwords in technology, finance, and culture. English-derived words like “computer,” “café,” and “internet” are ubiquitous in the South but virtually unknown in the North, creating challenges for defectors encountering them for the first time. This is tangential to the topic at hand, but as a Korean learner of ~9 years, it's maddening just how many English…

FWIW, North Koreans also use lots of English-derived loanwords for computer topics, but they may be different from those in the south. Some time ago I made a search interface for a North Korean English dictionary if you want to poke around: https://yorwba.github.io/dic.html/ For example, "file" is 화일 (hwail) instead of 파일 (pail).

This is really interesting, thanks for putting it together. I figure for specific topics like computing it's pretty much unavoidable.

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#36
post #28

> Unlike North Korea, South Korean society extensively uses loanwords in technology, finance, and culture. English-derived words like “computer,” “café,” and “internet” are ubiquitous in the South but virtually unknown in the North, creating challenges for defectors encountering them for the first time. This is tangential to the topic at hand, but as a Korean learner of ~9 years, it's maddening just how many English…

I completely understand the sentiment you're expressing here, however if it helps the language you see as a monolithic invader underwent exactly the same process, more than once. If you could go back in time, no doubt a 12th-century Anglo-Saxon would bemoan the influx of Norman French replacing perfectly capable English (Germanic) words.

It's ironic no doubt to be complaining about this topic, in English. I can empathize with that 12th-century Anglo-Saxon.

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#37
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, North Koreans also use lots of English-derived loanwords for computer topics, but they may be different from those in the south. Some time ago I made a search interface for a North Korean English dictionary if you want to poke around: https://yorwba.github.io/dic.html/ For example, "file" is 화일 (hwail) instead of 파일 (pail).

This is really interesting, thanks for putting it together. I figure for specific topics like computing it's pretty much unavoidable.

You might also be interested in the writeup by the person who reverse-engineered the original dictionary file format: https://digitalnk.com/blog/2020/05/08/porting-north-korean-d...

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#38
The article is full of interesting examples of linguistics differences between NK and SK, but…

As someone with a degree in linguistics, I question whether the author of this article has a sufficient grasp on the subject to put it in proper context.

One of the clearest indications of a superficial understanding of the subject matter is in the section describing "words with different meaning but the same spelling" or "homophones." The examples given are word pairs like "service" and "volunteers," which are obviously related in meaning; these are what linguists would immediately identify as examples of semantic shift (or perhaps polysemy), not of homophony.

Basically every language with more than a few thousand speakers in close proximity has internal dialectical differences. Americans and Brits experience linguistic difficulties similar to what's described in the article ("nappy"…?) when newly-exposed to each others' English. Having lived in various parts of the US and Canada, I know that the same thing happens even among people without easily distinguishable accents.

Judgments and assumptions about other subgroups’ use of language is also pretty universal. Stereotypical Southern accents are often perceived as uneducated in the northeast and west of the US; Québec French is perceived as degraded by the influence of English in France, although in some ways it's extremely conservative (in the linguistic sense) and retains words and other features of 18th-century French.

Anyway, this is all to say that the article is interesting, but the linguistic barriers it describes are unsurprising and not in any way unique to Korea. Without a more informed take on the subject, I'm skeptical that language differences are such a huge barrier to integration of North Koreans into SK society, any more than a British or Australian is Nigerian accent is a barrier to integration into (say) Seattle or Vancouver.

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#39

> Unlike North Korea, South Korean society extensively uses loanwords in technology, finance, and culture. English-derived words like “computer,” “café,” and “internet” are ubiquitous in the South but virtually unknown in the North, creating challenges for defectors encountering them for the first time. This is tangential to the topic at hand, but as a Korean learner of ~9 years, it's maddening just how many English…

> In addition to pure Korean words, there's a surfeit of Sino-Korean (Chinese-derived), or Hanja words. Both of these are beautiful, and then the English loanwords stick out like a sore thumb.

Any chance the English loanwords stick out to you and the Chinese ones don't because you can recognize English words but not Chinese words?

I can recognize many Sino-Korean words and zero Korean words, so I tend to think of the Sino-Korean words as sticking out.

Re: Lost in translation: The linguistic challenges facing N. Korean defectors (2025)

#40
post #30

> Unlike North Korea, South Korean society extensively uses loanwords in technology, finance, and culture. English-derived words like “computer,” “café,” and “internet” are ubiquitous in the South but virtually unknown in the North, creating challenges for defectors encountering them for the first time. This is tangential to the topic at hand, but as a Korean learner of ~9 years, it's maddening just how many English…

This is the same sort of thing as is happening in other languages such as Polish. Many English loan-words are being used when there exist equivalent Polish words, even on the news broadcast on TV.

I'm baffled that "cel podróży" was replaced with a bizarre "destynacja" from English 'destination'. And it seems it's also being used outside tourism context.

Not mention the infamous "hejter" but so far I don't think there's any good Polish equivalent and people are fine with that loanword - especially politicians.

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