Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Inventions for battery reuse and recycling increase seven-fold in last decade

epo.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 49 posts

Re: Inventions for battery reuse and recycling increase seven-fold in last decade

#31

Post by infecto »

jwr wrote: post #17

I recently read an article about a company that develops technology for re-using worn-out EV batteries for grid storage. After all, your EV battery with 70% capacity would be useful for many years somewhere in the desert with thousands of other similar batteries, as large-scale grid storage. The technology was great, the business model was sound, grid operators were very interested, everything was fine, except… the s…

The myths are insane, you will see them on here all the time.

Evs are so heavy, wear through tires, good luck when you need to replace the battery. The resources to build it are bad for the environment.

It’s exhausting. It’s like those folks that complain about tax rates for the top brackets and they are making 60k.

Re: Inventions for battery reuse and recycling increase seven-fold in last decade

#33

Post by donkyrf »

qsera wrote: post #15

This is the greatest fear. Take the example of simple AA batteries. As time and technology progressed, we didn't get safer, easily reusable and rechargable batteries and infra to charge them and safely dispose when they eventually met its end life. Instead we (India) got dirt cheap throwaway batteries everywhere that came bundled with every item or toy we buy... I think economics and incentives are in such a way that…

It's a little odd to think that 100 kWh battery packs would have the lifecycle as integrated .01 kWh components. The value prop for recycling is, obviously, incomparable.

Re: Inventions for battery reuse and recycling increase seven-fold in last decade

#34

Post by buckle8017 »

jwr wrote: post #17

I recently read an article about a company that develops technology for re-using worn-out EV batteries for grid storage. After all, your EV battery with 70% capacity would be useful for many years somewhere in the desert with thousands of other similar batteries, as large-scale grid storage. The technology was great, the business model was sound, grid operators were very interested, everything was fine, except… the s…

The issue is that battery packs tend to fail abruptly, one cell in one module goes bad completely.

So the worn out packs almost all have bad cells as well.

Its expensive to repair them because of how much dangerous manual labor is involved.

Re: Inventions for battery reuse and recycling increase seven-fold in last decade

#35

Post by vovavili »

infecto wrote: post #31
jwr wrote: post #17

I recently read an article about a company that develops technology for re-using worn-out EV batteries for grid storage. After all, your EV battery with 70% capacity would be useful for many years somewhere in the desert with thousands of other similar batteries, as large-scale grid storage. The technology was great, the business model was sound, grid operators were very interested, everything was fine, except… the s…

The myths are insane, you will see them on here all the time. Evs are so heavy, wear through tires, good luck when you need to replace the battery. The resources to build it are bad for the environment. It’s exhausting. It’s like those folks that complain about tax rates for the top brackets and they are making 60k.

>It’s like those folks that complain about tax rates for the top brackets and they are making 60k.

You don't need to be rich to have economic literacy.

Re: Inventions for battery reuse and recycling increase seven-fold in last decade

#36

Post by cshokie »

oulipo2 wrote: post #28

Disclaimer: I'm one of the founder. We're designing a cool repairable (and fireproof!) connected ebike battery at https://infinite-battery.com If you're an e-bike geek, let's talk!

How do you deal with voltage balance when replacing one bad cell out of a whole battery? My understanding is that lithium ion battery cells need to be close to each other in voltage or else they suddenly rebalance when reconnected, and can burst into flames.

Re: Inventions for battery reuse and recycling increase seven-fold in last decade

#37

Post by infecto »

vovavili wrote: post #35
infecto wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The myths are insane, you will see them on here all the time. Evs are so heavy, wear through tires, good luck when you need to replace the battery. The resources to build it are bad for the environment. It’s exhausting. It’s like those folks that complain about tax rates for the top brackets and they are making 60k.

>It’s like those folks that complain about tax rates for the top brackets and they are making 60k. You don't need to be rich to have economic literacy.

Yea but going back to the comparison to EV discussions. That’s not how this plays out. People have no thought and just latch on to ideas people feed them. There is no depth beyond the one statement.

Re: Inventions for battery reuse and recycling increase seven-fold in last decade

#38

Post by qsera »

donkyrf wrote: post #33
qsera wrote: post #15

This is the greatest fear. Take the example of simple AA batteries. As time and technology progressed, we didn't get safer, easily reusable and rechargable batteries and infra to charge them and safely dispose when they eventually met its end life. Instead we (India) got dirt cheap throwaway batteries everywhere that came bundled with every item or toy we buy... I think economics and incentives are in such a way that…

It's a little odd to think that 100 kWh battery packs would have the lifecycle as integrated .01 kWh components. The value prop for recycling is, obviously, incomparable.

> The value prop for recycling is, obviously, incomparable..

It might be. But I think the more important thing is where the value goes. If it goes to the environment, the businesses have zero incentives to address it own their own. At least until the problems becomes a lot obvious and too late until proper regulations are formed.

Re: Inventions for battery reuse and recycling increase seven-fold in last decade

#39

Post by laurencerowe »

jwr wrote: post #17

I recently read an article about a company that develops technology for re-using worn-out EV batteries for grid storage. After all, your EV battery with 70% capacity would be useful for many years somewhere in the desert with thousands of other similar batteries, as large-scale grid storage. The technology was great, the business model was sound, grid operators were very interested, everything was fine, except… the s…

New batteries have gotten so cheap it likely makes reuse of used batteries uneconomic.

Average costs of a new utility scale system are around $125/kWh of which $75/kWh is equipment of which $40/kWh is the LFP cells.

https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/how-cheap-is-batter...

Existing batteries used in cars usually have more expensive NMC chemistries. Their nickel and cadmium are worth about $30/kWh alone. They’re possibly worth more recycled for their constituent metals than reused for grid storage.

Re: Inventions for battery reuse and recycling increase seven-fold in last decade

#40

Post by lukan »

infecto wrote: post #31
jwr wrote: post #17

I recently read an article about a company that develops technology for re-using worn-out EV batteries for grid storage. After all, your EV battery with 70% capacity would be useful for many years somewhere in the desert with thousands of other similar batteries, as large-scale grid storage. The technology was great, the business model was sound, grid operators were very interested, everything was fine, except… the s…

The myths are insane, you will see them on here all the time. Evs are so heavy, wear through tires, good luck when you need to replace the battery. The resources to build it are bad for the environment. It’s exhausting. It’s like those folks that complain about tax rates for the top brackets and they are making 60k.

"The resources to build it are bad for the environment."

Have you recently checked on how oil is produced?

And batteries from abundant materials are avaiable, lithium is just still cheap. But yes, exhausting.

Post reply on HN