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Ramp's Sheets AI Exfiltrates Financials

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Re: Ramp's Sheets AI Exfiltrates Financials

#31

Post by alexjplant »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #29
walrus01 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're in the same era where lots of peoples' installation guides for the software they want people to use is essentially boiled down to "sudo curl | bash" and/or just "blindly install this thing with 37 npm dependencies", so I'm not surprised in the slightest. But wait, hold my beer, now we've got people turning openclaw type tools loose in their systems to do things as sudo or install software packages from supply-c…

All these developments show that: 1) Despite what people say about security and privacy, most are willing sacrifice both for the sake of potential convenience 2) Our priorities for the past decades have been wrong, or the times have changed and we should reevaluate them all

As the Dead Kennedys opined: "Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death"! [1]

[1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=FV1YVZV-Wb8

Re: Ramp's Sheets AI Exfiltrates Financials

#32

Post by foolswisdom »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #26
Ekaros wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or find it surprising that probabilistic tool based on generating things can do things when you give it rights to do things... And that you can not effectively program it to not do something.... You gave it capability to delete emails. Why did you expect it not to do that at least some of the time? And with enough user some of the time will most likely happen...

> You gave it capability to delete emails. Why did you expect it not to do that at least some of the time? Because of the I in AI of course. Would you call it false advertisement and go after the providers?

This reminds of the conversation the other day about the deleted production database at railway. "this person obviously didn't follow best practice of being hyper distrusting of LLM agents", and the response "yeah but every company is marketing it as safe. someone is gonna fall for it".

Re: Ramp's Sheets AI Exfiltrates Financials

#33

Post by kryogen1c »

foolswisdom wrote: post #32
bigbadfeline wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You gave it capability to delete emails. Why did you expect it not to do that at least some of the time? Because of the I in AI of course. Would you call it false advertisement and go after the providers?

This reminds of the conversation the other day about the deleted production database at railway. "this person obviously didn't follow best practice of being hyper distrusting of LLM agents", and the response "yeah but every company is marketing it as safe. someone is gonna fall for it".

(Well-regulated) free markets are sort of built on the principle of educated consumerism. Your choice matters; its not up to the government to make illegal every non-optimal product. However, we do expect some minimum level of safety.

What does that mean for llms? Their nondeterminism does seem to incline them toward a legal safety requirement. Can you buy a fire extinguisher that 1/1000 times burns your house down? Or can your car brakes instead increase acceleration in rare cases?

Im using llms much more than i used to, but i still cant shake the fundamental stochastic nature of the technology.

Re: Ramp's Sheets AI Exfiltrates Financials

#34

Post by yuliyp »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #26
Ekaros wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or find it surprising that probabilistic tool based on generating things can do things when you give it rights to do things... And that you can not effectively program it to not do something.... You gave it capability to delete emails. Why did you expect it not to do that at least some of the time? And with enough user some of the time will most likely happen...

> You gave it capability to delete emails. Why did you expect it not to do that at least some of the time? Because of the I in AI of course. Would you call it false advertisement and go after the providers?

But intelligent beings are fundamentally fallible? That's kind of the nature of doing leaps of reasoning: sometimes those leaps are amazing, sometimes they're wrong. It's what's advertised.

Re: Ramp's Sheets AI Exfiltrates Financials

#36

Post by bdangubic »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #26
Ekaros wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or find it surprising that probabilistic tool based on generating things can do things when you give it rights to do things... And that you can not effectively program it to not do something.... You gave it capability to delete emails. Why did you expect it not to do that at least some of the time? And with enough user some of the time will most likely happen...

> You gave it capability to delete emails. Why did you expect it not to do that at least some of the time? Because of the I in AI of course. Would you call it false advertisement and go after the providers?

I is in the I of the beholder :)

Re: Ramp's Sheets AI Exfiltrates Financials

#38

Post by bigbadfeline »

yuliyp wrote: post #34
bigbadfeline wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You gave it capability to delete emails. Why did you expect it not to do that at least some of the time? Because of the I in AI of course. Would you call it false advertisement and go after the providers?

But intelligent beings are fundamentally fallible? That's kind of the nature of doing leaps of reasoning: sometimes those leaps are amazing, sometimes they're wrong. It's what's advertised.

> But intelligent beings are fundamentally fallible?

Not fundamentally, only until they're compelled to learn from it. The current crop of AI understands neither compelling nor learning.

Re: Ramp's Sheets AI Exfiltrates Financials

#39

Post by strange_quark »

mday27 wrote: post #27
pentagrama wrote: post #25

Concidentially, today I was watching and interview with a lead designer from Ramp who is telling about how they are full ia, agents and automation https://youtu.be/KPDXMtmkcgk

Ramp does seem to have a genuinely good product, but every time I interact with anyone who works on it, I'm struck by how much they want to talk about how hardcore and advanced their working style is. This was true before AI, and it's very true now

Yeah it’s super weird. I know a guy that works there, really nice person outside of work, but the way he talks about his job is so weird. They make corporate expense software but they LARP like they’re on the bleeding edge of tech. My guy you make a slightly nicer Concur.
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