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San Francisco, AI capital of the world, is an economic laggard

economist.com

31–40 of 51 posts

Re: San Francisco, AI capital of the world, is an economic laggard

#31
post #13

Anybody who has tried to rent an apartment in SF in the past 6 months knows that the city is rebounding fast - avg rents are skyrocketing again and there are lines out the door for 1/2bds. People are locked-in to their covid specials that they outgrew, but can't afford to leave. I watched some friends offer to pay 12 months of rent up-front in cash for a place and still got outbid by another offer. I honestly disagre…

How big is the 996 crowd compared to the total tech employment in SF? Is it really that popular?

Re: San Francisco, AI capital of the world, is an economic laggard

#32

Weird, I thought AI was going to create so much economic surplus that we wouldn’t know what to do with it. What happened?

Please read the actual article instead of blindly responding to the title.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that".

Re: San Francisco, AI capital of the world, is an economic laggard

#33
post #29

How does 91 x >1e9 become 600e9? Is it like a bundle discount? "It hosts 91 other AI “unicorns”, private companies worth more than $1bn, collectively valued at a further $600bn."

Because they are worth more than 1B? If each is worth 7, that's worth 600B? Some are worth plenty more than 7.

Re: San Francisco, AI capital of the world, is an economic laggard

#34
post #13

Anybody who has tried to rent an apartment in SF in the past 6 months knows that the city is rebounding fast - avg rents are skyrocketing again and there are lines out the door for 1/2bds. People are locked-in to their covid specials that they outgrew, but can't afford to leave. I watched some friends offer to pay 12 months of rent up-front in cash for a place and still got outbid by another offer. I honestly disagre…

Every sane and persons with a personality/hobby/soul I know who isn’t rotting away at their job, or a career employee at some south bay company they plan to retire from have all left SF for abroad, SoCal, or NYC. My hunch is the people that are competing for housing are mostly new AI sector transplants, who will do the same thing that has ruined the city to begin with. Do nothing to support the local community, spend…

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco, AI capital of the world, is an economic laggard

#35
post #13

Anybody who has tried to rent an apartment in SF in the past 6 months knows that the city is rebounding fast - avg rents are skyrocketing again and there are lines out the door for 1/2bds. People are locked-in to their covid specials that they outgrew, but can't afford to leave. I watched some friends offer to pay 12 months of rent up-front in cash for a place and still got outbid by another offer. I honestly disagre…

Every sane and persons with a personality/hobby/soul I know who isn’t rotting away at their job, or a career employee at some south bay company they plan to retire from have all left SF for abroad, SoCal, or NYC. My hunch is the people that are competing for housing are mostly new AI sector transplants, who will do the same thing that has ruined the city to begin with. Do nothing to support the local community, spend…

As someone who lives and works in SF, I think it depends quite a bit on your social scene and neighborhood. Where I'm at it's constantly alive with people in the parks, out for running/biking groups, going to farmer's markets, attending art fairs, bars overflowing, etc. I meet lots of interesting people and enjoy the scene quite a bit, but maybe I run in a younger crowd than your friend who complains about the city.

Not here to change your mind, but I'm "defending" SF because I've never experienced such a difference between the lived experience in a city and the online vitriol you see constantly about it. It's a true "don't believe your lying eyes" situation and it's honestly a bit disorienting.

Re: San Francisco, AI capital of the world, is an economic laggard

#36
post #13

Anybody who has tried to rent an apartment in SF in the past 6 months knows that the city is rebounding fast - avg rents are skyrocketing again and there are lines out the door for 1/2bds. People are locked-in to their covid specials that they outgrew, but can't afford to leave. I watched some friends offer to pay 12 months of rent up-front in cash for a place and still got outbid by another offer. I honestly disagre…

How big is the 996 crowd compared to the total tech employment in SF? Is it really that popular?

It was a ghost town last time I was there about 6 months ago. You could walk down the middle of Market St at 9am on a weekday because its so empty. The only time I ever saw SF as empty was 9/11/01.

Re: San Francisco, AI capital of the world, is an economic laggard

#37
post #13

Anybody who has tried to rent an apartment in SF in the past 6 months knows that the city is rebounding fast - avg rents are skyrocketing again and there are lines out the door for 1/2bds. People are locked-in to their covid specials that they outgrew, but can't afford to leave. I watched some friends offer to pay 12 months of rent up-front in cash for a place and still got outbid by another offer. I honestly disagre…

How big is the 996 crowd compared to the total tech employment in SF? Is it really that popular?

Far, far bigger than any other US city. Why? IMO with AI it's basically an arms-race mentality and a lot of the startups/labs here are grinding 24/7 to snap up the industries before legacy businesses realize what's happening. It's a lot easier to feel that energy/pressure when everyone around you is doing the same thing, vs in NYC or wherever where everyone is out enjoying their weekends.

Re: San Francisco, AI capital of the world, is an economic laggard

#38
post #13

Anybody who has tried to rent an apartment in SF in the past 6 months knows that the city is rebounding fast - avg rents are skyrocketing again and there are lines out the door for 1/2bds. People are locked-in to their covid specials that they outgrew, but can't afford to leave. I watched some friends offer to pay 12 months of rent up-front in cash for a place and still got outbid by another offer. I honestly disagre…

Every sane and persons with a personality/hobby/soul I know who isn’t rotting away at their job, or a career employee at some south bay company they plan to retire from have all left SF for abroad, SoCal, or NYC. My hunch is the people that are competing for housing are mostly new AI sector transplants, who will do the same thing that has ruined the city to begin with. Do nothing to support the local community, spend…

> My hunch is the people are competing for housing are mostly new AI sector transplants...

I've absolutely nothing against transplants [0], but transplants that treat this place as the "mining town" that the major landowners and Supervisors have made it to be definitely suck the life and the weird out of the city.

There may be be a bunch of people driving up rents for the city's criminally-scarce -and frequently substandard- housing, but that doesn't mean that the city's not in deep shit. I roam around the city a whole lot on foot, and I see so, so many shuttered businesses and empty storefronts... even in places that were going gangbusters ten, fifteen years ago. The only places that seem to be doing quite well are the places that serve the poorest in the city -such as much of the Tenderloin-, [1] which are places that these new transplants would probably never, ever set foot in.

[0] I'm sure that you don't, either... not in general, anyway.

[1] I can't explain why these places are still doing great. Perhaps it's because the landowners and business managers understand that there's absolutely no way that they can get anything other than a perfectly normal rate of return from these properties... so the batshit insane stuff we see in the fancier parts of town that keeps commercial spaces in fine locations empty for ten+ years and forces out healthy businesses that have been in their space for decades simply doesn't happen? [2]

[2] For folks who want to retort that I simply don't understand how any of this works: Remember that California has Property Tax Control (by way of the 197X "Proposition 13"), which means that a landowner's property tax increases by a very small percentage of its originally assessed value each year, rather than what would be that property's current assessed value. What this means is that as long as a property does not change hands, the property tax paid by that landowner pretty much never increases... and there are ways to redirect the profits from and effective control of that property to a new human or corporate entity while ensuring that that property fails to legally change hands.

Re: San Francisco, AI capital of the world, is an economic laggard

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How big is the 996 crowd compared to the total tech employment in SF? Is it really that popular?

It was a ghost town last time I was there about 6 months ago. You could walk down the middle of Market St at 9am on a weekday because its so empty. The only time I ever saw SF as empty was 9/11/01.

That's because market street is closed to cars now. It's essentially a pedestrian corridor with the trolley/busses.

Re: San Francisco, AI capital of the world, is an economic laggard

#40
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every sane and persons with a personality/hobby/soul I know who isn’t rotting away at their job, or a career employee at some south bay company they plan to retire from have all left SF for abroad, SoCal, or NYC. My hunch is the people that are competing for housing are mostly new AI sector transplants, who will do the same thing that has ruined the city to begin with. Do nothing to support the local community, spend…

I live in Boston and software is dead here. It’s a biotech city but we used to be a player in software. AI missed us, remote work hollowed it out. I would love some AI dollars flowing here but it’s pretty sad. My hope is some defense tech drone stuff blows up but your problems would be welcome on the east coast!

I'm not sure why this got flagged... I wonder if someone misunderstood what "My hope is some defense tech drone stuff blows up..." meant.

As for

> ...remote work hollowed it out...

there's a simple solution: make it so that ordinary folks can actually afford to raise a family in the city. If folks can afford to raise a family in your city, then they're there for more than just the big paycheck, and won't run screaming the moment their well-paying job stops chaining them to an absurdly expensive city.

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