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UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

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Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#31

Post by fontain »

sph wrote: post #14
weego wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking related illness costs the UK more in healthcare than the tax revenue it collects. No twist needed, it's really fucking logical.

Nonsense. Did people already forget the prohibitionism? Did people already forget the war on drugs? I remember liberals were talking about drug decriminalisation 10 years ago, has everybody turned into a puritan nowadays? Also, very hypocritical argument when alcohol (and gambling) are very accepted in British culture. I'd like to see the numbers showing that the few people that still roll their own cigs at 15 pounds…

I like cigarettes. Cigarettes aren’t addictive. I’m pro drug decriminalisation and pro banning cigarettes. They’re not mutually exclusive.

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#33

Post by klodolph »

threepts wrote: post #24

They also permanently banned coke,meth and other drugs since the inception of law, guess how that turned out? "The Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) estimated that 8.7% of people aged 16 to 59 years (around 2.9 million people) reported using any drug in the last 12 months for the year ending (YE) March 2025; there was no statistically significant change compared with YE March 2024" I believe limiting people's…

> guess how that turned out?

My guess is that significantly fewer people use drugs than would have used drugs if they were not banned.

> "The Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) estimated that 8.7% of people aged 16 to 59 years (around 2.9 million people) reported using any drug in the last 12 months for the year ending (YE) March 2025; there was no statistically significant change compared with YE March 2024"

Are there some significant changes to policy during that time period? I don’t see how this factoid is related to whatever argument you are trying to make.

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#34

Post by WarmWash »

tt24 wrote: post #27

This is the logical conclusion when you socialize healthcare. If you’re pro NHS / single payer, you *must* support this. As well as banning drugs, sugar, extreme sports, unprotected sex, and other high risk behavior. Anything short of this just doesn’t make sense.

We can just tax the rich to cover the cost of our personal decisions. Which is their fault anyway because I wouldn't have gotten diabetes if they didn't shove that junk take out food down my throat.

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#35

Post by BLKNSLVR »

allears wrote: post #3

I totally agree that tobacco is a harmful substance. I'm not sure if I agree that a government should try to legislate citizens' habits.

I look at it, not as legislating people's habits, more as a private company wants to sell these things in our country, but there is a clear, measurable negative effect on society as a result (and in the case of cigarettes there is no positive effect whatsoever that may offset the negative).

I would call that an easy ban. You can't sell that shit here legitimately. I'm a little surprised the attempts haven't been more widespread.

I wonder what possible gap there is for things that can be illegal to sell, but you can buy them from international sellers and use them in the privacy of your own home? (and health insurance won't cover related complications).

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#36

Post by pkulak »

tt24 wrote: post #22
pkulak wrote: post #18

Wow, lots of libertarian absolutists up this morning. Guys, that's all well and good as a philosophy, but you need to integrate your views into the world around you too. When you live in a society that has _decided_ to collectively shoulder health care costs, and assume responsibility for everyone's health, you also may need some ground rules. I know it sucks, because _you_ may have just been born there and you don't…

> When you live in a society that has _decided_ to collectively shoulder health care costs Look, I found the problem!

Democracy is the problem?

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#37

Post by tastyfreeze »

tt24 wrote: post #27

This is the logical conclusion when you socialize healthcare. If you’re pro NHS / single payer, you *must* support this. As well as banning drugs, sugar, extreme sports, unprotected sex, and other high risk behavior. Anything short of this just doesn’t make sense.

Now to take the last logical step like Canada and suggest assisted suicide to the high cost patients.

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#38

Post by shevy-java »

I never smoked in my life so one would assume I would be in favour of this. The health data is clear. At the same time I can not stand governments constantly interfering into regular people's life. I think at some point there has to put a stop to this - the idea that governments can control people like little slaves is just outrageous, even if the alleged use case is logically compelling or appears to be that way. By the same token governments can say "you can only use the internet if you ID".

Also, as some point out this is "liberty" - well, I don't see how a restriction can be about "liberty" at all. It is the opposite of it; having a use case that seems logical still does not make a strategy about it good.

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#39

Post by tt24 »

pkulak wrote: post #36
tt24 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you live in a society that has _decided_ to collectively shoulder health care costs Look, I found the problem!

Democracy is the problem?

To a large extent yes, but more specifically the decision to collectively shoulder healthcare costs is the problem.

Re: UK to permanently ban future generations from buying cigarettes

#40

Post by inheritedwisdom »

allears wrote: post #3

I totally agree that tobacco is a harmful substance. I'm not sure if I agree that a government should try to legislate citizens' habits.

In the US I tend to agree (given the current pay to live system is constructed) but in the UK with single payer insurance this seems more palatable.

I’m curious if a “free society / libertarian” middle ground would be limiting access to NHS for those that choose to continue to use known harmful substances. I’d posit that many would object to that the way “death panels” were politicized when the Affordable Healthcare Act was passed though.

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