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CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

medicalxpress.com

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Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#31

Post by theodric »

almostjazz wrote: post #17
CooCooCaCha wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I told you I put a chemical into the water supply that gave people brown hair you’d probably think I am weird and stupid but not evil. If I told you the chemical gave people down syndrome you’d probably think I am evil. Whenever these topics come up there’s always people saying things like “but what if people like it?” And I can’t help but wonder, really? Are we really having this conversation? The answers are obv…

If you force something major and permanent on somebody without their consent for no good reason, of course it would be evil. It would be evil to force somebody gay to be straight and it would be evil to force somebody straight to be gay, that has nothing to do with the goodness or badness of being straight or gay. Hair dye is temporary.

All of the arguments in this thread seem to be treating this research's outcome as deleting a person, and applying a corresponding moral judgement thereto. But it is not! I personally find that choosing to not have a child with Down Syndrome by engineering away the possibility in advance is no worse than choosing not to have a child at all, and better than aborting a viable but affected fetus, because no life is ended. I am not a murderer for choosing not to have any child at all because I feel that my genes should not be imposed on another generation, and I am not a Nazi for saying that if I had a child, I would take any available humane steps to ensure it received the best subset of genetic material from the set available to it. I would, in fact, argue that leaving the creation of a whole person who will have to experience life for 80 years to a series of genetic coin flips is morally reprehensible. Just because we've always done it that way doesn't make it desirable or humane. I welcome this development.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#32

Post by [deleted] »

lynx97 wrote: post #22
almostjazz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is logically impossible about people with down syndrome being happier on average than those without it?

It would break the feeling of superiority of people without that disability. Fact. So they can't believe it.

[deleted]

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#33

Post by pc86 »

JimmyBuckets wrote: post #2

[flagged]

> It would be interesting to understand what people with down syndrome feel about this.

Would it?

> Would they all want what makes them unique turned off?

Having a disability doesn't make you unique, it makes you disabled. There is a difference.

> 99% of people with Down syndrome were happy with their lives; 97% liked who they are; 96% liked how they looked; 99% expressed love for their families; 97% liked their brothers and sisters; 86% felt they could make friends easily.

Survey their parents, who are almost certainly their full-time caregivers, if they are "happy their child has Down syndrome."

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#35

Post by bulbar »

CooCooCaCha wrote: post #12
JimmyBuckets wrote: post #2

[flagged]

If I told you I put a chemical into the water supply that gave people brown hair you’d probably think I am weird and stupid but not evil. If I told you the chemical gave people down syndrome you’d probably think I am evil. Whenever these topics come up there’s always people saying things like “but what if people like it?” And I can’t help but wonder, really? Are we really having this conversation? The answers are obv…

I think it's a valid argument to say that people with down syndrome are much happier than those without. Most of them need a society (or at least multiple other people) without that trait to survive, though.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#36

Post by CooCooCaCha »

bulbar wrote: post #35
CooCooCaCha wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I told you I put a chemical into the water supply that gave people brown hair you’d probably think I am weird and stupid but not evil. If I told you the chemical gave people down syndrome you’d probably think I am evil. Whenever these topics come up there’s always people saying things like “but what if people like it?” And I can’t help but wonder, really? Are we really having this conversation? The answers are obv…

I think it's a valid argument to say that people with down syndrome are much happier than those without. Most of them need a society (or at least multiple other people) without that trait to survive, though.

This post is about curing down syndrome though.

Saying “but they’re happy” in this context is implying that we shouldn’t try to cure it, which is obviously ridiculous.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#37

Post by bulbar »

lynx97 wrote: post #19
JimmyBuckets wrote: post #2

[flagged]

A similar statistic applies to many disabilities. If you give people a few years of time, after they acquired a disability, studies show their happiness isn't substantially different from a person without a disability. Grief comes from lack of accessibility and society failing to support us. But not from the actual situation. I have to explain this every other week, to a non-disabled person that tries to tell me how…

This sounds a bit like you dislike the lack of understanding, which itself is based on lack of understanding.

On the other hand I agree that commenting on ones disability is a break of boundaries in most contexts. One should quite often avoid to comment on traits in general that are irrelevant for the context or the conversation.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#38

Post by EA-3167 »

pc86 wrote: post #33
JimmyBuckets wrote: post #2

[flagged]

> It would be interesting to understand what people with down syndrome feel about this. Would it? > Would they all want what makes them unique turned off? Having a disability doesn't make you unique, it makes you disabled. There is a difference. > 99% of people with Down syndrome were happy with their lives; 97% liked who they are; 96% liked how they looked; 99% expressed love for their families; 97% liked their brot…

If the kinds survive long enough to outlive their parents as many do now, ask them again how happy they are once their home life transitions into an institutional one.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#39

Post by refulgentis »

amoorthy wrote: post #21
refulgentis wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 99% number is wrong. Additionally, it should set off alarms that the argument implies we should give people Down Syndrome . Using it to argue against helping people with Down syndrome is worse. The authors spell out why its wrong. [1] Their sample was exclusively from DS nonprofit mailing lists, got a 17% response rate, with a median household income of $100K, (2x median), and as they wrote, the results are like…

Wow, thanks for taking the time to share all this data with such clear points. Much appreciated, especially the personal anecdote to make all this be less academic.

I read their comment, flashback to years of growing up, trying to salvage an unsalvageable situation, and my now non-existent family all came rushing in at once. I saw red, almost posted the one sentence putdown version....glad I took a step back and data-fied it. Learned a bit myself, and I really appreciate you said this. Don't have words for why. Cheers.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#40

Post by kstrauser »

JimmyBuckets wrote: post #2

[flagged]

> Most people with down syndrome live happy, fulfilling lives.

Correction: the people with Down Syndrome who are capable of meaningfully responding to the question answered a certain way on one survey. Down's affects different people differently. There are plenty of people who don't have the mental facilities to understand the question, let alone respond.

I've seen this kind of argument with autism, too. People here on HN will point out that they were diagnosed with autism and still have rich, meaningful lives. I don't doubt that for one moment! Still, my family lived next to a family with a profoundly autistic, nonverbal kid, and their lives were hard. The parents are lovely people but they were at their wits' end dealing with the consequences of his condition. When people talk about nebulous things like "a cure for autism", they don't mean a way to help the HN folks who have jobs and friends and families. They're talking about my next door neighbor who liked to take off his pants and run around naked outside.

I imagine it's the same here. There's the occasional news story about someone with Down Syndrome graduating college and getting married. They're doing fine. It'd still be nice to find a way to help those who'd never be able to make it to kindergarten.

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