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WireGuard makes new Windows release following Microsoft signing resolution

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Re: WireGuard makes new Windows release following Microsoft signing resolution

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where possible I recommend not caring because figuring out whether malice was present is difficult and you can likely address a problem without needing to be sure. For example by creating working processes which never end up "accidentally" causing awful outcomes. This is sometimes more expensive, but we should ensure that the resulting lack of goodwill if you don't is unaffordable. Worst case there is malice and you'…

> Worst case there is malice and you've now made it more difficult to hide the malice so you've at least made things easier for those who remain committed to looking for malice, including criminal prosecutors. i am quoting the maintainer of the project. take it up with them if you think microsoft coordinated a directed attack on their project.

I think you're missing the point of the person you're replying to.

It's really easy to end up with procedural machinery that makes it unpleasant for other entities that you don't like.

It seems to get the things that you do like and value less often. Why? Because you think about the consequences to what you consider important and you're inclined to ignore potential consequences to those you oppose or are competing with.

The Vogons weren't necessarily overtly malicious when they obliterated Earth.

Re: WireGuard makes new Windows release following Microsoft signing resolution

#33
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, sure, but at a certain point negligent incompetence is directly harmful and the motives or lack thereof are just context.

"just context" is important. i get that everyone has a frothing-at-the-mouth extreme hatred to microsoft and its employees. but microsoft did not say "fuck jason, fuck wireguard, lets try and shut that down". that would be a way different story.

What's the accountability mechanism here? Make a big fuss online and hope the bad press outweighs the negligence?

Re: WireGuard makes new Windows release following Microsoft signing resolution

#34
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"just context" is important. i get that everyone has a frothing-at-the-mouth extreme hatred to microsoft and its employees. but microsoft did not say "fuck jason, fuck wireguard, lets try and shut that down". that would be a way different story.

What's the accountability mechanism here? Make a big fuss online and hope the bad press outweighs the negligence?

i point out in my original comment that i think it is stupid that the only way to resolve this sort of thing is via social media. i think it is insane. and the lack of accountability is also crazy, given the influence microsoft (and other big tech) has over everyday life.

i think people are reading my comment as some sort of defense of microsoft. its not.

all i wanted to emphasize was that this incident, while obviously ridiculous, did not come about because a bunch of microsoft employees sat in a cigar-smoke filled room saying "lets destroy wireguard".

Re: WireGuard makes new Windows release following Microsoft signing resolution

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where possible I recommend not caring because figuring out whether malice was present is difficult and you can likely address a problem without needing to be sure. For example by creating working processes which never end up "accidentally" causing awful outcomes. This is sometimes more expensive, but we should ensure that the resulting lack of goodwill if you don't is unaffordable. Worst case there is malice and you'…

> Worst case there is malice and you've now made it more difficult to hide the malice so you've at least made things easier for those who remain committed to looking for malice, including criminal prosecutors. i am quoting the maintainer of the project. take it up with them if you think microsoft coordinated a directed attack on their project.

"hostage speaks well of hostage-taker"

Re: WireGuard makes new Windows release following Microsoft signing resolution

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Worst case there is malice and you've now made it more difficult to hide the malice so you've at least made things easier for those who remain committed to looking for malice, including criminal prosecutors. i am quoting the maintainer of the project. take it up with them if you think microsoft coordinated a directed attack on their project.

"hostage speaks well of hostage-taker"

if you think i am defending microsoft, your hatred has blinded you to what my comments are actually saying.

Re: WireGuard makes new Windows release following Microsoft signing resolution

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the person you are responding is asserting that the response to incompetence of this level should be the SAME as if it directed and intentional malice. Which is a completely valid way to view a fuckup like this.

> response to incompetence of this level should be the SAME sure. but this was not a deliberate attack by microsoft employees to shutdown wireguard. that is what i was trying to say and the essence of the quote in question.

They are saying that "deliberate attack" or not does not matter and is not worth pointing out. The response is the same so its a worthless point.

Re: WireGuard makes new Windows release following Microsoft signing resolution

#38
post #3

As I mentioned in the mailing list post, the Microsoft paperwork shuffling matter got dealt with rather quickly, following all the attention the HN thread from the other day got. And now we're finally out with an update! NT programming is a lot of fun, though this release was quite challenging, because of all of the toolchain updates. On the plus side, we got to remove pre-Win10 support -- https://lists.zx2c4.com/pip…

[deleted]

Re: WireGuard makes new Windows release following Microsoft signing resolution

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> response to incompetence of this level should be the SAME sure. but this was not a deliberate attack by microsoft employees to shutdown wireguard. that is what i was trying to say and the essence of the quote in question.

They are saying that "deliberate attack" or not does not matter and is not worth pointing out. The response is the same so its a worthless point.

whether something is a deliberate attack or not is not worth pointing out?

its, like, the only thing worth pointing out. if microsoft is deliberately targeting projects and literally attacking them, that would be huge fucking news. like crazy news. lawsuits galore.

Re: WireGuard makes new Windows release following Microsoft signing resolution

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the way things are going right now with all the corruption in governments and corporations were way past the point of giving the benefit of the doubt. These organizations are clearly making changes to their OS's to slowly remove user control. Everything should be treat as suspicious moving forward and I am glad of the skepticism.

The question is, did they notify the user that the account was blocked, or was it done silently? My money is on the latter, obviously I don’t know, just my guess. Was there a reason? Blocked is semantically harsher, than it has been disabled.

It was done silently. I am one of the affected developers and my software is the open source file system driver WinFsp:

https://github.com/winfsp/winfsp

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