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German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

krebsonsecurity.com

31–40 of 175 posts

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#31
post #29
post #8

Feels odd for an infosec blog to use 'doxxing' this way. Doxxing is generally considered to be unethical exposure of personal information. Identifying a criminal is ethical.

> Identifying a criminal is ethical. I agree that “doxxing” is being misused in TFA, but criminals have privacy rights like anyone else. Violating these rights requires specific justification, it’s not automatically ethical.

They put the person on a wanted list.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#32
post #24

Putting someone on a (most) wanted list is "doxing"? [Edit] "An international search is underway for Daniil Maksimovich SHCHUKIN on suspicion of numerous counts of gang-related and commercial extortion using ransomware to the detriment of commercial enterprises, public facilities, and institutions."

Yeah, I’m not okay with this. Doxxing is a term with an extremely negative connotation and is often done to people who, bluntly, weren’t hiding or doing anything wrong. The correct term for the same act here is either “accuse” or “unmask”.

If someone wasn't previously known, only an alias or alter-ego, but you then link those together with a real-life identity, that's very much the definition of "doxxing", at least the original definition, maybe it's different today? Positive or negative doesn't really matter, just like "shooting" or "jumping" in itself isn't positive or negative, it's just a verb.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#33

Putting someone on a (most) wanted list is "doxing"? [Edit] "An international search is underway for Daniil Maksimovich SHCHUKIN on suspicion of numerous counts of gang-related and commercial extortion using ransomware to the detriment of commercial enterprises, public facilities, and institutions."

> Putting someone on a (most) wanted list is "doxing"?

No, if they just put UNKN on the most wanted list, then it wouldn't be doxing. But then they also tie UNKN together with "Daniil Maksimovich Shchukin", and that's the doxxing, regardless or not if it's on a most wanted list.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#34
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Identifying a criminal is ethical. I agree that “doxxing” is being misused in TFA, but criminals have privacy rights like anyone else. Violating these rights requires specific justification, it’s not automatically ethical.

They put the person on a wanted list.

My comment isn’t about this specific case. It’s about the general claim.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#35

Putting someone on a (most) wanted list is "doxing"? [Edit] "An international search is underway for Daniil Maksimovich SHCHUKIN on suspicion of numerous counts of gang-related and commercial extortion using ransomware to the detriment of commercial enterprises, public facilities, and institutions."

> Putting someone on a (most) wanted list is "doxing"? No, if they just put UNKN on the most wanted list, then it wouldn't be doxing. But then they also tie UNKN together with "Daniil Maksimovich Shchukin", and that's the doxxing, regardless or not if it's on a most wanted list.

I think this is not how wanted lists work, here in Germany at least. Do they work this way where you are living? The goal of wanted lists in Germany is to find the person the police is searching for to put them in front of a court if the prosecution can make a case.

Perhaps this goes back to leftist terrorism in Germany in the 1970s, they would not use the code names of terrorists on the wanted lists but their real names to find them, because this is what they wanted - but I don't know.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly, criminals also have a right to privacy. However, the limited publication of personal data of criminals by law enforcement is generally a legally legitimate measure. Doxxing, on the other hand, is generally a process that violates the fundamental right to privacy.

>criminals >law >legally You keep using these words but it causes circular logic as those are all defined by the same entity that is acting unilaterally. The action the government took was not a "good" action by any moral standard. But it was perhaps the least worse action available all things considered. Can't just whisk people off the street in a foreign country or drone them over such matters, those options would…

Is it your position that privacy is a right regardless of any action you take? Many rights are dependent on circumstance and in tension with other rights. In this case I think you can make the case that their right to privacy is lost.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the government who defines what "criminal" means.

Not necessarily. I'm free to make my own determination on the matter.

You are certainly free to make up your own definitions for words and speak a dialect that is niche but you will not be effectively communicating when you do. By commonly understood definition criminality is a matter of law.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#38
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I’m not okay with this. Doxxing is a term with an extremely negative connotation and is often done to people who, bluntly, weren’t hiding or doing anything wrong. The correct term for the same act here is either “accuse” or “unmask”.

If someone wasn't previously known, only an alias or alter-ego, but you then link those together with a real-life identity, that's very much the definition of "doxxing", at least the original definition, maybe it's different today? Positive or negative doesn't really matter, just like "shooting" or "jumping" in itself isn't positive or negative, it's just a verb.

And if the police actually catches the accused and puts them in jail, is that kidnapping? Most verbs have far more semantics than just the most basic before/after state diff.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#39

Putting someone on a (most) wanted list is "doxing"? [Edit] "An international search is underway for Daniil Maksimovich SHCHUKIN on suspicion of numerous counts of gang-related and commercial extortion using ransomware to the detriment of commercial enterprises, public facilities, and institutions."

also it seems the US had already identified him 3 years prior?

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#40
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I’m not okay with this. Doxxing is a term with an extremely negative connotation and is often done to people who, bluntly, weren’t hiding or doing anything wrong. The correct term for the same act here is either “accuse” or “unmask”.

If someone wasn't previously known, only an alias or alter-ego, but you then link those together with a real-life identity, that's very much the definition of "doxxing", at least the original definition, maybe it's different today? Positive or negative doesn't really matter, just like "shooting" or "jumping" in itself isn't positive or negative, it's just a verb.

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