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Introduction to Computer Music (2009) [pdf]

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Re: Introduction to Computer Music (2009) [pdf]

#31
post #3

I often see people frame music as mathematical manipulation or try to approach music making from a “first principles” approach, where those principles are mathematics and physics. But watching musicians talk about making music, I seldom see any discussion of the underlying math, and instead see discussions of timbres, instruments, and stylistic/historical influences; musicians who make good music seems to believe “fi…

No. Create good music from the principles of creating good music, then, a few years down the line, add maths if you really need it.

Re: Introduction to Computer Music (2009) [pdf]

#32
post #3

I often see people frame music as mathematical manipulation or try to approach music making from a “first principles” approach, where those principles are mathematics and physics. But watching musicians talk about making music, I seldom see any discussion of the underlying math, and instead see discussions of timbres, instruments, and stylistic/historical influences; musicians who make good music seems to believe “fi…

Wonderful question. I suspect it's partially the culture issue you point to, but also a practical issue of composition. If we decompose sound into the basic waveforms, similar to the subject pdf on page 18, we then have parts that we can reassemble. We can take the defense-funded DSP math of the likes of a John Cooley or a John Tukey and build an engine for assembling the parts of sound. All this being said, I think…

This is the kind of UI people should be building.

https://youtu.be/3poN6FDyB28?is=QjDzlmRQCMMbP_lS

What you wrote described an output, not a UI.

Re: Introduction to Computer Music (2009) [pdf]

#33
post #3

I often see people frame music as mathematical manipulation or try to approach music making from a “first principles” approach, where those principles are mathematics and physics. But watching musicians talk about making music, I seldom see any discussion of the underlying math, and instead see discussions of timbres, instruments, and stylistic/historical influences; musicians who make good music seems to believe “fi…

tbf the essay is clearly titled 'Introduction to Computer Music', and not 'Introduction to Music'.

Re: Introduction to Computer Music (2009) [pdf]

#34
post #3

I often see people frame music as mathematical manipulation or try to approach music making from a “first principles” approach, where those principles are mathematics and physics. But watching musicians talk about making music, I seldom see any discussion of the underlying math, and instead see discussions of timbres, instruments, and stylistic/historical influences; musicians who make good music seems to believe “fi…

It sounds pedantic, but I think it's important: maths and physics are often used to describe sounds, their relationships and emergent properties through combination. Maths and physics aren't ever really used to describe music.

It's like telling someone they can paint a masterpiece because they understand Fe4[Fe(CN)6]3 makes an aesthetically pleasant blue pigment.

Re: Introduction to Computer Music (2009) [pdf]

#35
Note: Nick Collins (the author of this book) and Alex McLean created Algorave. The time I spent learning from the Algorave community was crucial to my later work on Glicol (https://glicol.org/).

Btw, I have a feeling that if you want to learn about computer music, you can send the PDF to LLM and ask what the chapter is about and how to represent it using csound or supercollider.

My experience is that with computer music, you have to keep experimenting and listening in order to truly understand and innovate.

Re: Introduction to Computer Music (2009) [pdf]

#36
post #3

I often see people frame music as mathematical manipulation or try to approach music making from a “first principles” approach, where those principles are mathematics and physics. But watching musicians talk about making music, I seldom see any discussion of the underlying math, and instead see discussions of timbres, instruments, and stylistic/historical influences; musicians who make good music seems to believe “fi…

Good musicians care about music theory / “first principles” as much as good writers care about language theory / grammar.

Re: Introduction to Computer Music (2009) [pdf]

#37
post #3

I often see people frame music as mathematical manipulation or try to approach music making from a “first principles” approach, where those principles are mathematics and physics. But watching musicians talk about making music, I seldom see any discussion of the underlying math, and instead see discussions of timbres, instruments, and stylistic/historical influences; musicians who make good music seems to believe “fi…

Maths and physics are a terrible way to learn the artistic side of music, but if you are interested in "why does a fifth chord sound nice" or "why are the black and white keys on a piano in that particular pattern" you can get interesting (partial) answers by looking into the maths of frequency ratios and the physics of overtones and how they affect the cilia of the inner ear. Music differs between cultures but there are some universals such as the Octave (edit: by which I mean doubling of frequency, not how its divided up) and nearly all cultures have some form of music ... There is something universally human about it, and so its a doorway to studying how our minds work.

Re: Introduction to Computer Music (2009) [pdf]

#38
post #3

I often see people frame music as mathematical manipulation or try to approach music making from a “first principles” approach, where those principles are mathematics and physics. But watching musicians talk about making music, I seldom see any discussion of the underlying math, and instead see discussions of timbres, instruments, and stylistic/historical influences; musicians who make good music seems to believe “fi…

Maths and physics are a terrible way to learn the artistic side of music, but if you are interested in "why does a fifth chord sound nice" or "why are the black and white keys on a piano in that particular pattern" you can get interesting (partial) answers by looking into the maths of frequency ratios and the physics of overtones and how they affect the cilia of the inner ear. Music differs between cultures but there…

> but there are some universals such as the Octave

Universal in the sense that a number of rocks or a number of sheep can be doubled just as a frequency can?

The notion that there are 8 sub divisions to a doubled frequency interval isn't universal. Balinese Gamelan doesn't even neccessarily have an agreed number of "notes" in an "Octave" from one village to the next.

Re: Introduction to Computer Music (2009) [pdf]

#39
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maths and physics are a terrible way to learn the artistic side of music, but if you are interested in "why does a fifth chord sound nice" or "why are the black and white keys on a piano in that particular pattern" you can get interesting (partial) answers by looking into the maths of frequency ratios and the physics of overtones and how they affect the cilia of the inner ear. Music differs between cultures but there…

> but there are some universals such as the Octave Universal in the sense that a number of rocks or a number of sheep can be doubled just as a frequency can? The notion that there are 8 sub divisions to a doubled frequency interval isn't universal. Balinese Gamelan doesn't even neccessarily have an agreed number of "notes" in an "Octave" from one village to the next.

There aren't 8 subdivisions in an octave in western music either. Well, there are in any given scale, but there are also many scales. "Octave" is a misleading term. Given that it's just a doubling of frequency, the term is sort of as good as any other, and that douibling exists in pretty much all cultures that have developed string, pipe or other resonant body based music (including hitting hollow logs and plucking vibrating reeds / sticks / tines).

It's pretty much the foundational idea of any modality. No matter how you divide it up, the purest harmony is doubling or halving.

Re: Introduction to Computer Music (2009) [pdf]

#40
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maths and physics are a terrible way to learn the artistic side of music, but if you are interested in "why does a fifth chord sound nice" or "why are the black and white keys on a piano in that particular pattern" you can get interesting (partial) answers by looking into the maths of frequency ratios and the physics of overtones and how they affect the cilia of the inner ear. Music differs between cultures but there…

> but there are some universals such as the Octave Universal in the sense that a number of rocks or a number of sheep can be doubled just as a frequency can? The notion that there are 8 sub divisions to a doubled frequency interval isn't universal. Balinese Gamelan doesn't even neccessarily have an agreed number of "notes" in an "Octave" from one village to the next.

powers of 2 seem to work well in many things. in rhythm too. so dont be so quick to dismiss.
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