IPv6 vs. 4 is like Python 3 vs. 2, just worse.
And IPv6 vs v4 discussions are just like Python 3 vs. 2 discussions: Often much more annoying than just getting it over with and switching.
New patches allow building Linux IPv6-only
31–40 of 198 posts
Re: New patches allow building Linux IPv6-only
#32As it should. Date notwithstanding, I would actually enjoy if there was a manually induced latency penalty for "legacy IP" that needs to be manually turned off on Linux. I know some people don't care at all, but the internet was made to be addressable. IPv6 is the only shot we have to go back to that.
Why, so you can inflict some personal pain on people without IPv6 access?
I am running IPv6 only servers, and I think it's fair that v4 only people feel the same pain some time in the future.
Re: New patches allow building Linux IPv6-only
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
I recently changed ISPs and have IPv6 for the first time. I mostly felt the same way, but have learned to get over it. Some things took some getting used to. An "ip address show" is messy with so many addresses. Those public IPs are randomized on most devices, so one is created and more static but goes mostly unused. The randomly generated IPs aren't useful inbound for long. I don't think you could brute force scan t…
> Having a public address doesn't worry me. At home I have a firewall at the edge. It is set to block everything incoming. Concern is privacy, not security. Publicly addressable machine is a bit worse for security (IoT anyone?), but it is a lot worse for privacy.
I'm not confused about the NAT / firewall distinction, but it might be nice if my ISP didn't have a constant, precise idea of exactly how many connected devices I owned. Can that be _inferred_ with IPv4? Yes, but it's fuzzier.
Re: New patches allow building Linux IPv6-only
#34great, now can we convince the rest of the internet to start adding AAAA records and ipv6 endpoints for things. Github is still a nightmare to use DNS64 and NAT64 to access those from IPv6 only machines. Or all the Container based stuff that still falls flat with ipv6 only modes. Docker still shits the bed if you dont give it ipv4 unless you do a lot of manual overrides to things. A bunch of Envoy based gateway proxi…
I've tried to run an IPv6 only box on Hetzner 2-3 years ago. Didn't have a problem with the platform, but with RedHat because subscription-manager didn't work over a IPv6-only stack.
Around the same time, I think the Photoprism image also didn't work on IPv6 because of Traefik
Re: New patches allow building Linux IPv6-only
#35As it should. Date notwithstanding, I would actually enjoy if there was a manually induced latency penalty for "legacy IP" that needs to be manually turned off on Linux. I know some people don't care at all, but the internet was made to be addressable. IPv6 is the only shot we have to go back to that.
- I don't want my interfaces to have multiple IP addresses - I don't want my devices to have public, discoverable IPs - I like NAT and it works fine - I don't want to use dynamic DNS just so I have set up a single home server without my ISP rotating my /64 for no reason (and no SLAAC is not an answer because I don't want multiple addresses per interface) - I don't need an entire /48 for my home network IPv6 won't hel…
NAT is arguably a very broken solution.IPv4 isn't meant to be doing address translation, period. NAT creates all sorts of issues because in the end you're still pretending all communications are end to end, just with a proxy. We had to invent STUN and all sorts of hole punching techniques just to make things work decently, but they are lacking and have lots of issues we can't fix without changing IPv4. I do see why some people may like it, but it isn't a security measure and there are like a billion different ways to have better, more reliable security with IPv6. The "I don't want my devices to have public, discoverable IPs" is moot when you have literally billions of addresses assigned to you. with the /48 your ISP is supposed to assign you you may have 4 billion devices connected, each one with a set of 281 trillion unique addresses. You could randomly pick an IP per TCP/UDP connection and not exhaust them in _centuries_. The whole argument is kind of moot IMHO, we have ways to do privacy on top of IPv6 that don't require fucking up your network stack and having rendezvous servers setting that up.
We may also argue that NAT basically forces you to rely on cloud services - even doing a basic peer to peer VoIP call is a poor experience as soon as you have 2 layers of NAT. We had to move to centralised services because IPv4 made hosting your own content extremely hard, causing little interest in symmetrical DSL/fiber, leading to less interest into ensuring peer to peer connections between consumers are fast enough, which lead to the rise of cloud and so on. I truly believe that the Internet would be way different today if people could just access their computers from anywhere back in the '00s without having to know networking
Re: New patches allow building Linux IPv6-only
#36As it should. Date notwithstanding, I would actually enjoy if there was a manually induced latency penalty for "legacy IP" that needs to be manually turned off on Linux. I know some people don't care at all, but the internet was made to be addressable. IPv6 is the only shot we have to go back to that.
It’s not implemented in the Linux kernel, but the latency penalty you’re describing is part of the “Happy Eyeballs” algorithm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Eyeballs
Re: New patches allow building Linux IPv6-only
#37As it should. Date notwithstanding, I would actually enjoy if there was a manually induced latency penalty for "legacy IP" that needs to be manually turned off on Linux. I know some people don't care at all, but the internet was made to be addressable. IPv6 is the only shot we have to go back to that.
- I don't want my interfaces to have multiple IP addresses - I don't want my devices to have public, discoverable IPs - I like NAT and it works fine - I don't want to use dynamic DNS just so I have set up a single home server without my ISP rotating my /64 for no reason (and no SLAAC is not an answer because I don't want multiple addresses per interface) - I don't need an entire /48 for my home network IPv6 won't hel…
Why don't you want every device to have a public IP? There seems to be a perception that this is somehow insecure, but the default configuration of any router is to firewall everything. And one small bonus of the huge size of a /64 is that port scanning is not feasible, unlike in the old days when you could trivially scan a whole IPv4 /24 of a company that forgot to configure their firewall.
NAT may work fine for your setup, but it can be a huge headache for some users, especially users on CGNAT. How many years of human effort have gone towards unnecessary NAT workarounds? With IPv6, if you want a peer-to-peer connection between firewalled peers, you do a quick UDP hole punch and you're done - since everything has a unique IP, you don't even need to worry about remapping port numbers.
Your ISP shouldn't be rotating your /64, although unfortunately many do since they are still IPv4-brained when it comes to prefix assignment. Best practice is to assign a static /56 per customer, although admittedly this isn't always followed.
And if you don't need a /48... don't use it? 99.99% of home customers will just automatically use the first /64 in the block, and that's totally fine. There's a ton of address space available, there's no drawback to giving every customer a /56 or even a /48.
Re: New patches allow building Linux IPv6-only
#38As it should. Date notwithstanding, I would actually enjoy if there was a manually induced latency penalty for "legacy IP" that needs to be manually turned off on Linux. I know some people don't care at all, but the internet was made to be addressable. IPv6 is the only shot we have to go back to that.
- I don't want my interfaces to have multiple IP addresses - I don't want my devices to have public, discoverable IPs - I like NAT and it works fine - I don't want to use dynamic DNS just so I have set up a single home server without my ISP rotating my /64 for no reason (and no SLAAC is not an answer because I don't want multiple addresses per interface) - I don't need an entire /48 for my home network IPv6 won't hel…
So run fc00::/7 addresses with IPv6 NAT.
That addresses all of your concerns, and you have that option.
Re: New patches allow building Linux IPv6-only
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
IPv4 is not holding back home setups, nobody cares about NAT at home. The place where it hurts is small VPSs, from AWS to mom and pop hosters, the cost of addresses is becoming significant compared to low cost VPSs.
> nobody cares about NAT at home. Only because most people don't know how NAT is hurting them, and because corporations have spent incredible resources on hacking around the problem for when peer to peer is required (essentially only for VoIP latency optimization and gaming). NAT hurts peer to peer applications much more than cloud services, which are client-server by nature and as such indeed don't care that only ou…
Even in a NAT-less world, the common advice is to use a firewall rule that disallows incoming connections by default. (And I'd certainly be worried if typical home routers were configured otherwise.) So either way, you'd need the average person to mess with their router configuration, if they want to allow incoming P2P connections without hole-punching tricks. At best, the lack of NAT might save you an address-discovery step.
Re: New patches allow building Linux IPv6-only
#40When I was in grade school I did a presentation on ipv6 and how it was the future of the Internet. That was like 20 years ago.