Live data from Hacker News

The ladder is missing rungs – Engineering Progression When AI Ate the Middle

negroniventurestudios.com

31–40 of 62 posts

Re: The ladder is missing rungs – Engineering Progression When AI Ate the Middle

#31
post #7

Spot on. All those years of slinging code and debugging gave me and others the judgement and eye to check on all the AI generated code. I now wonder often about what hiring looks like in this new era. As a small startup, we just don't need junior engineers to do the day to day implementation. Do we instead hire a small number of people as apprentices to train on the high level patterns, spot trouble areas, develop go…

Give juniors local models and plan for a workflow that soesnt require subsidized compute with lockib.

Re: The ladder is missing rungs – Engineering Progression When AI Ate the Middle

#33
I agree that the way that today's generation of seasoned programmers learned their craft is going away, and that we don't know how the next generation will learn. I disagree very much with the conclusion:

> They didn’t trade speed for learning. They traded learning for nothing. There was no trade-off. There was just loss.

I believe this conclusion is due to a methodological problem, a form of begging the question if you will. One thing I am certain of is that humans who set their mind to something learn something, and good programmers are among the most tenacious in setting their mind to something. With agentic coding, they definitely learn different things, and so I would expect syntax knowledge to be weaker, but debugging and review skill will increase overall. Why? Because there will be more code, and more breakage, and I still haven't seen any tooling that allows a non-technical person to be effective at this.

Programming knowledge has always had a half-life. The way I see it, this is a big sea change that will fundamentally change the job of software engineers, and some non-trivial percentage will either change careers or find a sheltered slow-moving place to finish out their working years. But for those who were not attached to hand-crafted code, AI provides power tools that empower technically minded people more than anyone else. I have full faith that younger generation still has the same distribution of technical potential, and they will still find ways to develop their craft just as previous generations of hackers have always done.

Re: The ladder is missing rungs – Engineering Progression When AI Ate the Middle

#34
> I saw a LinkedIn post a week or two ago by a senior engineer with 25 years’ experience in the industry...

And how many years have we had capable AI? Maybe it's going to take a similar timeline for people to figure out how to be good with an AI assisted workflow (if not fully automated.)

Re: The ladder is missing rungs – Engineering Progression When AI Ate the Middle

#35
We hired on a software engineer fresh out of college this January, and we are a very claude heavy shop. We have noticed and have explained to him that we still have to do the real engineering work: requirements decomposition, interface design, verification and integration. Claude is helpful but he is still responsible for his output. He’s been doing well so far! Theres still plenty of things for him to bang his head on and grow.

Re: The ladder is missing rungs – Engineering Progression When AI Ate the Middle

#36
post #7

Spot on. All those years of slinging code and debugging gave me and others the judgement and eye to check on all the AI generated code. I now wonder often about what hiring looks like in this new era. As a small startup, we just don't need junior engineers to do the day to day implementation. Do we instead hire a small number of people as apprentices to train on the high level patterns, spot trouble areas, develop go…

> As a small startup, we just don't need junior engineers to do the day to day implementation.

> Do we instead hire a small number of people as apprentices...

Are you not just re-describing what a junior engineer is? Someone with potential you hire to have them learn and grow on your team?

I don't understand what is different. Pre-LLM, companies seemingly expected juniors to know a ton about coding. Post-LLM they'll expect them to know a ton about LLMs.

Re: The ladder is missing rungs – Engineering Progression When AI Ate the Middle

#37
Digital technology has been gutting other fields for decades. For a few examples, we have lost the ladder that trained people as Linotype Operators/Typesetters, Photographic Lab Technicians, Legal Research Associates, Dictation Typists and Stenographers, etc. All which could lead to higher skilled and higher paid jobs.

We didn't care until the same process came knocking on the door for us.

Re: The ladder is missing rungs – Engineering Progression When AI Ate the Middle

#39
post #7

Spot on. All those years of slinging code and debugging gave me and others the judgement and eye to check on all the AI generated code. I now wonder often about what hiring looks like in this new era. As a small startup, we just don't need junior engineers to do the day to day implementation. Do we instead hire a small number of people as apprentices to train on the high level patterns, spot trouble areas, develop go…

When your senior developers retire, and if the LLMs haven't caught up to their level by that time, where do you think new senior developers will come from?

MBA! lol

We've actually been here before with higher languages. Assembly is actually a higher language, performance is much worse than machine code. It cant really self modify or do code generation. To squeeze all of the wine from the rock you do need 100 times more effort. C is luxurious compared to assembly. Python is even more productive. We don't use html/css/javascript because it is so fast, it's gawd aweful slow. I can however get something up and available to the world in less than a minute.

Then we pretend to be optimizing our websites for performance but we have no idea what code is triggered by our instructions. If the button responds in 0.2 seconds we are good. You know, the time it takes for the cpu to do 1-2 trillion instructions?

We already are MBA's!

Post reply on HN