A school district tried to help train Waymos to stop for school buses • Hacker News Board

Re: A school district tried to help train Waymos to stop for school buses

#31

Post by ronsor » Fri, Apr 03, 2026, 7:27 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #25

ronsor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> turn up the dials on speed and aggressiveness You literally cannot drive on public roads unless you match the speed, flow, and maneuvering of other traffic.

Never been stuck behind someone doing 45 in a 55? Really? You don’t have to speed. It’s a choice. You shouldn’t make the choice in the passing lane, though.

I'm fairly certain "slower traffic keep right" is part of the expected flow.

Maybe the Waymo is technically speeding, but so is everyone else, because speed limits aren't magic, and if the de-facto limit ends up being 50 when the posted limit is 40 or 45, going slower creates extra conflict points for accidents.

Re: A school district tried to help train Waymos to stop for school buses

#32

Post by PunchyHamster » Fri, Apr 03, 2026, 7:28 PM UTC

sahila wrote: post #29

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #2

So I assume Waymo will be immediately banned from any residential areas until they can demonstrate the ability to follow the laws of the road? The problem is there is zero enforcement. We know the vehicle is not safe around schoolchildren so the appropriate incentive needs to be applied to get the issue addressed.

> So I assume Waymo will be immediately banned from any residential areas until they can demonstrate the ability to follow the laws of the road? Why do you apply a different standard to waymos than to humans?

> Why do you apply a different standard to waymos than to humans?

Show me waymo's driving license and the test it passed to get it

Re: A school district tried to help train Waymos to stop for school buses

#33

Post by tracerbulletx » Fri, Apr 03, 2026, 7:29 PM UTC

carsoon wrote: post #27

bushbaba wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a cop notices this, who gets the ticket? Asking because I’ve noticed Waymos starting to go above the speed limit now. They’re generally just matching the flow of traffic like everyone else, but it does raise the question: who gets fined? And if the fleet as a whole racks up more than 4 points in 12 months, would Waymo loose it's license similar to human drivers?

I saw a waymo go in a nonexistent rightmost lane at a stop light, I thought it was going to turn but it instead proceeded to go forward and force the driver in the actual rightmostlane to break to allow it to merge else it would have caused an accident as there was no lane in front of it. This was on El Camino in Santa Clara. I was highly suprised as I was under the assumption they were pretty much production ready a…

Use statistical incidence rates and not "i saw a thing.." to make that call. I mean I'm sure most drivers regularly think "wow maybe humans shouldnt be allowed to drive" every time they go out on the road.

Re: A school district tried to help train Waymos to stop for school buses

#34

Post by SoftTalker » Fri, Apr 03, 2026, 7:29 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #16

appreciatorBus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when they told us that autonomous cars wouldn’t break laws and wouldn’t speed. I always felt this was just a strategy, and that soon enough fleet operators would turn up the dials on speed and aggressiveness. After all, the only people who can complain are the people outside the car, and they will be dead.

There are highways in the US where drivers regularly go 10-20 over the speed limit, if not more; maintaining the speed limit on a road that's labeled as 45MPH zone, but is treated as a 65, will be dangerous for everyone involved, both the cars approaching the slowpoke at 20+ miles an hour, and the slowpoke itself. I don't know how Waymo is going to square that circle.

> a road that's labeled as 45MPH zone, but is treated as a 65

If this is the case, then the speed limit is too low. To control speed on such a road you either need draconian enforcement or you need to change the road so people aren't comfortable driving that fast. Make the lanes narrower, introduce lane shifts or reduce the number of lanes, etc.

Re: A school district tried to help train Waymos to stop for school buses

#35

Post by PunchyHamster » Fri, Apr 03, 2026, 7:30 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #28

ardacinar wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can just treat them like they are anybody else. So, $1000 fine plus a point on the license of Waymo. And as suggested by another commenter in the thread, if the cars in the fleet (collectively) accumulate more than 4 points within 12 months, Waymo loses its license. As in, all cars operated by Waymo.

Is that how any corporate fleet works?

corporate fleets have different driver per the vehicle, not same code running everything

Re: A school district tried to help train Waymos to stop for school buses

#36

Post by Manuel_D » Fri, Apr 03, 2026, 7:31 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #7

lokar wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would settle for a fine each time, about $1000 in CA, and a point on some employees license.

$1,000 is not a meaningful amount of money to Google. Maybe if, based on the fact the entire fleet uses the same software, it is fined $1,000 per car in their fleet each time an incident occurs? Bear in mind $1,000 per incident is not enough money to justify paying a software developer to fix it.

If this behavior actually is a prevalent issue, then there will be many fines that add up. If Google doesn't rack up many fines, then this problem is evidently rare.

Re: A school district tried to help train Waymos to stop for school buses

#37

Post by kube-system » Fri, Apr 03, 2026, 7:31 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #16

appreciatorBus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when they told us that autonomous cars wouldn’t break laws and wouldn’t speed. I always felt this was just a strategy, and that soon enough fleet operators would turn up the dials on speed and aggressiveness. After all, the only people who can complain are the people outside the car, and they will be dead.

There are highways in the US where drivers regularly go 10-20 over the speed limit, if not more; maintaining the speed limit on a road that's labeled as 45MPH zone, but is treated as a 65, will be dangerous for everyone involved, both the cars approaching the slowpoke at 20+ miles an hour, and the slowpoke itself. I don't know how Waymo is going to square that circle.

I used to live in a place where this was common -- the issue was not just speed, but a general disregard for traffic law because traffic law was unenforced. You could be going 50 in a 35 and someone would aggressively pass you. At some point, the road is simply occupied by unsafe drivers and there's not much you can do other than hold your line and be as predictable as possible to the aggressive drivers around you.

Re: A school district tried to help train Waymos to stop for school buses

#38

Post by antonymoose » Fri, Apr 03, 2026, 7:34 PM UTC

tracerbulletx wrote: post #33

carsoon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a waymo go in a nonexistent rightmost lane at a stop light, I thought it was going to turn but it instead proceeded to go forward and force the driver in the actual rightmostlane to break to allow it to merge else it would have caused an accident as there was no lane in front of it. This was on El Camino in Santa Clara. I was highly suprised as I was under the assumption they were pretty much production ready a…

Use statistical incidence rates and not "i saw a thing.." to make that call. I mean I'm sure most drivers regularly think "wow maybe humans shouldnt be allowed to drive" every time they go out on the road.

The thing about human drivers is we’re all unique little stupid snowflakes.

If a software powered car is vulnerable to a certain condition, presumably, all running that software system are. The rare day we can generalize a bad driving story, in fact.

Re: A school district tried to help train Waymos to stop for school buses

#39

Post by threetonesun » Fri, Apr 03, 2026, 7:36 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #34

pavel_lishin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are highways in the US where drivers regularly go 10-20 over the speed limit, if not more; maintaining the speed limit on a road that's labeled as 45MPH zone, but is treated as a 65, will be dangerous for everyone involved, both the cars approaching the slowpoke at 20+ miles an hour, and the slowpoke itself. I don't know how Waymo is going to square that circle.

> a road that's labeled as 45MPH zone, but is treated as a 65 If this is the case, then the speed limit is too low. To control speed on such a road you either need draconian enforcement or you need to change the road so people aren't comfortable driving that fast. Make the lanes narrower, introduce lane shifts or reduce the number of lanes, etc.

IDK if it's draconian but speed cameras or simply forcing cars to have modules that report speeds at certain points and issue fines automatically should be standard by now. What's the point of having smarter cars if they can't be forced to stay below the legal speed limit.

Re: A school district tried to help train Waymos to stop for school buses

#40

Post by kube-system » Fri, Apr 03, 2026, 7:36 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #34

pavel_lishin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are highways in the US where drivers regularly go 10-20 over the speed limit, if not more; maintaining the speed limit on a road that's labeled as 45MPH zone, but is treated as a 65, will be dangerous for everyone involved, both the cars approaching the slowpoke at 20+ miles an hour, and the slowpoke itself. I don't know how Waymo is going to square that circle.

> a road that's labeled as 45MPH zone, but is treated as a 65 If this is the case, then the speed limit is too low. To control speed on such a road you either need draconian enforcement or you need to change the road so people aren't comfortable driving that fast. Make the lanes narrower, introduce lane shifts or reduce the number of lanes, etc.

Sometimes bad road design (e.g. lanes too wide) are to blame, but in miserable neighborhoods with no traffic enforcement at rush hour you can also end up in a situation where the majority of people on the road are simply aggressive drivers who are familiar with the road. At some point you do need to enforce the law if it isn't being respected. There is a growing subset of people in the US who not only disregard traffic law but pride themselves in a distain for it.