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The Joy of Numbered Streets

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Re: The Joy of Numbered Streets

#31
I really liked the number/name system in SF when I was living there. It was very legible, even if you didn't know the named street, you could quickly dial in to the location by scanning along the numbered street.

Where I live now the streets are 'wavy' and have very long names, usually a person or an auspicious date - and often multiple instances quite nearby. Almost useless for navigation.

I also miss the grid system - traffic naturally gets calmed down, and you are never too far from a cross walk.

Re: The Joy of Numbered Streets

#32

I may be very European, and grew up in a relatively chaotic city, but I find quite confusing when I’m on a grid city. Yes, it’s sort of convenient at a rational level, but everything appears the same, and there’s no way to differentiate one cross from the next. Streets doesn’t have their own “personality” and you have to learn them by name. I don’t know half of the street names of the city I grew in, but I know where…

The approach is fundamentally different: in Europe it's organized by where you want to go (or do), in the US it's organized by cardinal directions. In the US, if you're on 89th Street and 5th Avenue, and you want to visit your friend on 10th and 1st Avenue, you'll know exactly which direction to drive. Need to go to another city? Take the highway following the direction the other city is. Americans are typically good…

I'm in Northern Europe and 100% of my many many taxi tours have used GPS for driving directions.

Taxi drivers don't use road signs anymore for figuring out which direction to take.

Re: The Joy of Numbered Streets

#33
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine finding this in the US... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gropecunt_Lane

Sounds like a good name for renaming the President Donald J. Trump Boulevard leading up to Mar-A-Lago when the current bout of totalitarianism over there ends.

> In "The Miller's Tale", Geoffrey Chaucer writes "And prively he caughte hire by the queynte" (and intimately he caught her by her crotch),[14] and the comedy Philotus (1603) mentions "put doun thy hand and graip hir cunt."

It turns out “grab her by the pussy” has surpringly robust precedent.

Re: The Joy of Numbered Streets

#34
> But before we do that, we should think for a moment about what streetnames are for. They are for helping people navigate the city.

People name streets (and other things) for other reasons too, often for internal or local reference. This perspective reduces the meaning of naming to a single focus, like saying we name dogs only to allow our guests to refer to them as needed when visiting our homes. We name things for many reasons, and those reasons are more about endearment and culture building at the local level. I recommend Seeing Like a State by James Scott for more discussion, including about street names, exploring this perspective.

Re: The Joy of Numbered Streets

#35

I may be very European, and grew up in a relatively chaotic city, but I find quite confusing when I’m on a grid city. Yes, it’s sort of convenient at a rational level, but everything appears the same, and there’s no way to differentiate one cross from the next. Streets doesn’t have their own “personality” and you have to learn them by name. I don’t know half of the street names of the city I grew in, but I know where…

The approach is fundamentally different: in Europe it's organized by where you want to go (or do), in the US it's organized by cardinal directions. In the US, if you're on 89th Street and 5th Avenue, and you want to visit your friend on 10th and 1st Avenue, you'll know exactly which direction to drive. Need to go to another city? Take the highway following the direction the other city is. Americans are typically good…

Not everywhere in the US. Boston for instance is a notable exception

Re: The Joy of Numbered Streets

#36
post #8

In Northwest Portlnd, Oregon the East-west streets were originally letters. A st, B st, C st, etc. They were renamed after people but they kept the first letter, so now its Ankeny, Burnside, Couch, Davis, Everett, Flanders, Gleason, Hoyt, Irving, Johnson... They get to have it both ways, and they could be renamed if there was a desire to do so without impeding the general purpose. (One of my joking tests to see if so…

When we moved to Portland about 7 years ago, our first apartment was in the Pearl District on Couch (asking someone to pronounce it correctly is another good Portlander test). I'm a huge fan of the alphabetic street names. It made it really easy to get around a new city. I know the system eventually breaks down when you hit the 27th street, but I still think it's great. Anyways, I'm back in Chicago now and memorizing street locations.

Re: The Joy of Numbered Streets

#37
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The approach is fundamentally different: in Europe it's organized by where you want to go (or do), in the US it's organized by cardinal directions. In the US, if you're on 89th Street and 5th Avenue, and you want to visit your friend on 10th and 1st Avenue, you'll know exactly which direction to drive. Need to go to another city? Take the highway following the direction the other city is. Americans are typically good…

Not everywhere in the US. Boston for instance is a notable exception

I'm personally convinced that the road systems of New England were of some influence on Lovecraft in his conception of cosmic horror. A map of Boston roads does tend to evoke the concepts of non-Euclidean geometry and tentacle monsters

Re: The Joy of Numbered Streets

#38
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everywhere in the US. Boston for instance is a notable exception

I'm personally convinced that the road systems of New England were of some influence on Lovecraft in his conception of cosmic horror. A map of Boston roads does tend to evoke the concepts of non-Euclidean geometry and tentacle monsters

I'll never be able to not think of this whenever I'm in the maze of roads downtown Boston!

Re: The Joy of Numbered Streets

#39
Having grown up in and lived most of my life in the Chicago area, the rationality of the grid system is rather nice. If you know your “hunnerts”¹ you can find anything. Every 8 hunnerts is a mile except for the first three miles south of Madison where the streets are numbered.² A handful of suburbs use numbered streets for north-south streets (Cicero and Elmwood Park—maybe others but those are the ones I know). In the city, there was a plan to have north-south streets named with the first letter indicating the distance in miles from the Indiana border, but it only really starts with “K-town”⁴ between Pulaski and Cicero Avenues and while most streets follow the pattern, it’s not universal.

Some distant suburbs (Du Page County and beyond) use a numbering scheme of xxWyyy where the xx is the number of miles west of State Street (the 0 in the cartesian grid of Chicago) and the yyy is the location within that mile. I don’t think they do anything similar for North-South coordinates though.

The diagonal streets in Chicago largely follow the routes of early non-grid roads of the city (many of which were plank roads run as toll-collecting businesses and followed paths used by the native American tribes living in the area before European settlement.

1. Hunnerts (from hundreds) being Chicago-speak for the location on a grid. E.g., Chicago Avenue is 800 (eight hunnert) north and Western is 2400 (24 hunnert) west.

2. This is a consequence of history. All the missing numbers (Roosevelt at 12 hunnert south is the first mile, Cermak/22nd street at 22 hunnert south is the second and 31st street at 31 hunnert south the third) do exist,³ but the streets were named and numbered before the replatting established the modern hunnert system.

3. There might not be some of the hunnerts in that first mile—the numbered streets only start after Roosevelt.

4. Not to be confused with Los Angeles’s K-town where the K stands for Korea.

Re: The Joy of Numbered Streets

#40

Some Latin American cities were designed as grids (100m x 100m squares), and numbering of blocks spans a hundred per block (first block is 0 to 100 house numbers). So if you are at 200s in one street and are looking for a house at 1200s, you know you are a kilometer away. This with numbered streets is awesome to navigate. Buenos Aires has the first, but named streets. La Plata in Argentina has both. If you are into m…

Chicago is like this, there are numbered streets on the south side, but all the streets on the north and west sides are named, however they're very good about putting the grid numbers on the named street signs, so it's easy to figure out where you are. 100 addresses per block, 8 blocks to a mile, so if I'm at Western and Belmont, that's 2400W 3200N, so 3 miles west and 4 miles north of downtown. All the Metro stations list the grid numbers on the signs at the exits too
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