Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild • Hacker News Board

Re: Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild

#31

Post by grecy » Wed, Nov 07, 2012, 6:25 PM UTC

lancefisher wrote: post #28

Somewhat related is the crow machine. It trains crows to collect and deposit money in exchange for a treat: http://www.josh.is/crow-machine/

That's awesome. Thanks.

Here in The Yukon we have lots and lots of enormous ravens that hang around and generally cause trouble (getting into trash, etc.). While out moose hunting they were following our canoe and making all kinds of noise when we were trying to be quiet.

I was wondering if it would be possible to train one to seek out moose, and land in a tree above them, so we could spot the moose (they are very hard to spot sitting on the side of a river in long grass).

This gives me hope.

Re: Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild

#32

Post by grecy » Wed, Nov 07, 2012, 6:32 PM UTC

hughlomas wrote: post #22

My favorite example of tool use in birds is this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYZnsO2ZgWo of a crow that actually bends a piece of wire to form a hook. There are some details about it here: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0808_020808_...

Have you seen this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGPGknpq3e0&feature=relat...

Where a bird uses cars and a crosswalk to crack nuts.

Re: Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild

#33

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 07, 2012, 6:36 PM UTC

pfortuny wrote: post #25

driverdan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I don't have sources to cite or know enough about the topic to explain it eloquently but I know you're wrong. Tool use is far more abstract and requires much more intelligence. The animal has to recognize and understand the problem at hand, the fact that they can create a tool, and then the method of using that tool. Nesting is an evolutionary trait that has existed for a long time.

Depends on what you call 'intelligence': making a home for living is more intelligent than just picking a stone for playing, is it not? Building for the future (you know, you do not build a nest with a couple of straws) means projecting oneself in the future: that is intelligence for me. 'I know you're wrong' is quite strong.

[deleted]

Re: Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild

#34

Post by trafficlight » Wed, Nov 07, 2012, 8:11 PM UTC

nsns wrote: post #23

Ever heard of Anthropocentrism? Why would tool use be confined to humans? When a baby (or a cub) learns to control his/her eye muscles, or her/his hands; when a bird builds a nest, it's tool use. Tool use is simply an extension of learning how to use our bodily organs, nothing special about it, all living creatures do that.

Tool use is very rare. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_use_by_animals