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The case for becoming a manager

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Re: The case for becoming a manager

#31

Post by jjav »

spl757 wrote: post #16
justonceokay wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May you be released from thinking that your mistakes reflect poorly on anyone, including yourself. Being bad is a necessary part of becoming good

When did I say any of that? wtf are you talking about? I clearly said OTHER PEOPLE's mistakes, not my own. But thanks for playing. edit: In fact, that is exactly my point. I DO take responsibility for my own mistakes, I just don't want to be held responsible for OTHER PEOPLE's mistakes.

> I DO take responsibility for my own mistakes, I just don't want to be held responsible for OTHER PEOPLE's mistakes.

That's a sensible position. But if you want to lead a team then you must be responsible for any failures in the team as a whole.

It's not easy. I've had very low performing employees in my team but I'm still responsible for the productivity of the team. My management isn't cutting me any slack just because I have a low performer in the team. If the employee is not doing the work then I must find a way to fill in the gaps until I can replace them. Usually that means I get to do all their work and all my work until a replacement is hired.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#33

Post by JambalayaJimbo »

mergeshield wrote: post #25

[flagged]

> The best engineering managers I've worked with didn't "become" managers. They were already doing the work - unblocking people, aligning priorities, having hard conversations - and the title caught up.

I have only been working for around 6 years now and have had 4 managers so far. That said this is the opposite of my experience. You need training on actually having reports vs. just leading a team. My current manager does not care about my personal growth or career goals whatsoever and he’s a bad manager for it. But he is good at delivering projects.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#34

Post by justonceokay »

spl757 wrote: post #16
justonceokay wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May you be released from thinking that your mistakes reflect poorly on anyone, including yourself. Being bad is a necessary part of becoming good

When did I say any of that? wtf are you talking about? I clearly said OTHER PEOPLE's mistakes, not my own. But thanks for playing. edit: In fact, that is exactly my point. I DO take responsibility for my own mistakes, I just don't want to be held responsible for OTHER PEOPLE's mistakes.

As above, so below.

If you think that your reports mistakes would reflect poorly on you, then surely you also think that your mistakes reflect poorly on your manager. Which is just not the case, unless there is something bigger happening.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#36

Post by bob1029 »

If you ignore the titles and just start taking care of things, a whole world opens up that is invisible to most.

Doing things even when you aren't sure if they are your responsibility is precisely what makes you a responsible person. Encouraging everyone around you to do trivial things like bringing the shopping cart back is actually a big deal. And the most effective way to do this is to just do it. Park as far as you possibly can from the store and walk that thing for a solid 3 minutes both ways. Find one with a really noisy wheel. Make a whole production out of it. Leading by example is unbelievably effective if you lean into it just a little bit.

But this could be anything. If you see a customer waiting on a response and you know exactly what they need to be told, go tell them. Don't make them wait until next Thursday when their CSR gets back from vacation. If you aren't sure about the email, draft it, send it to your boss/peer/etc. for review. About 50% of the time they'll say "yep looks good please send" the other half they'll just take care of it right then and CC you on it. Either way you come out looking good.

The "not my job" crowd is simply not thinking ahead at all. You don't get paid more money the microsecond you go above and beyond. It takes persistent investment in this bucket before someone with actual power decides to help you out. There's not a progress bar or quest log you can review. It just happens. One day you get a phone call and that's that. There's no lead up or anticipation most of the time. You just have to be good all the time and expect that you are being observed. That's the only thing I've found that works over strategic timescales.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#37

Post by tasuki »

not_that_d wrote: post #32

To be honest, in my decades working in this, I have never ever saw a Manager that was a good Developer. Maybe it is just my luck.

> I have never ever saw a Manager that was a good Developer.

What does that mean? And why should a Manager be a good Developer?

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#39

Post by rrherr »

JambalayaJimbo wrote: post #33
mergeshield wrote: post #25

[flagged]

> The best engineering managers I've worked with didn't "become" managers. They were already doing the work - unblocking people, aligning priorities, having hard conversations - and the title caught up. I have only been working for around 6 years now and have had 4 managers so far. That said this is the opposite of my experience. You need training on actually having reports vs. just leading a team. My current manager…

> My current manager does not care about my personal growth or career goals whatsoever and he’s a bad manager for it. But he is good at delivering projects.

I've gone back and forth between Manager and IC. I'm the opposite: I don't care about delivering projects, but I do care about my team's personal growth and career goals.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#40

Post by girvo »

> The most valuable thing management has taught me is how to communicate with precision when someone else’s work depends on it.

Ignoring the AI tells throughout the article for the moment, but I'm very surprised that someone who is a staff, staff+ level IC hasn't has to build this exact skill.

> When you’re an IC, unclear communication slows you down. When you’re a manager, unclear communication breaks your team. That difference in consequences makes you learn faster than you would any other way.

This is nonsense: unclear communication from me to my team absolutely breaks the team, despite being a staff+ and not an EM. Distinction without a difference.

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