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I hate: Programming Wayland applications

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Re: I hate: Programming Wayland applications

#31

Post by diath »

craftkiller wrote: post #26
dzogchen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a damn shame that tools like xdotool (automation) and sxhkd (global keybinds) are impossible to recreate under Wayland.

Not impossible, it just needs to be implemented at a different layer. The compositor needs to expose some API for global hotkeys. For example, I found this with ~2 minutes of Googling: https://wayland.app/protocols/hyprland-global-shortcuts-v1

And that's a problem, now instead of knowing that something just works in the WM you're using, you have to cross-reference a matrix of features for basic tasks across different WMs because the bare minimum features are not found in the core protocols. Nothing is standardized, it's just a pile of different WMs developing their own sets of custom protocols.

Re: I hate: Programming Wayland applications

#33

Post by m132 »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #21
65a wrote: post #6

As a user, I like wayland. X11 was a security disaster. Wayland is much better about tearing. What scares me though are all the responsibilities passed to compositors, because what ends up happening is that each compositor may reimplement what should be common functionality in annoying ways. This is especially true for input things, like key remapping. This ultimately fragments linux desktop experiences even harder t…

A security disaster? Howso?

Letting any GUI application capture all input and take full control of the desktop completely defeats the point of sandboxing and X11 does exactly that.

Re: I hate: Programming Wayland applications

#34

Post by flexagoon »

dzogchen wrote: post #8
diath wrote: post #3

Wayland was designed from the point of view of theoretical purists. It's basically "how would a display server work in an ideal world", unfortunately, that design turns out to also be impractical and straight up developer/user hostile.

It is a damn shame that tools like xdotool (automation) and sxhkd (global keybinds) are impossible to recreate under Wayland.

ydotool exists

https://github.com/ReimuNotMoe/ydotool

Re: I hate: Programming Wayland applications

#36

Post by Krutonium »

dzogchen wrote: post #8
diath wrote: post #3

Wayland was designed from the point of view of theoretical purists. It's basically "how would a display server work in an ideal world", unfortunately, that design turns out to also be impractical and straight up developer/user hostile.

It is a damn shame that tools like xdotool (automation) and sxhkd (global keybinds) are impossible to recreate under Wayland.

wdotool exists, and global hotkeys are a thing under wayland, but is desktop dependent. KDE allows it by default, Gnome can be made to do it as well with an extension.

Re: I hate: Programming Wayland applications

#37

Post by James_K »

Reminds me somewhat of Vulkan. I think the trend of making the actual specification of something lower level and less convenient is rather logical. Why burden implements with a load of convenience functions when that could be left up to libraries?

Re: I hate: Programming Wayland applications

#38

Post by AshamedCaptain »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #21
65a wrote: post #6

As a user, I like wayland. X11 was a security disaster. Wayland is much better about tearing. What scares me though are all the responsibilities passed to compositors, because what ends up happening is that each compositor may reimplement what should be common functionality in annoying ways. This is especially true for input things, like key remapping. This ultimately fragments linux desktop experiences even harder t…

A security disaster? Howso?

Well, it allowed local users to actually use their computers for computing instead of just safely consuming "apps" -- obviously that needed to go.

Re: I hate: Programming Wayland applications

#39

Post by flexagoon »

vatsachak wrote: post #25
izacus wrote: post #16

The constant loud bile spewing over Wayland and systemd just won't stop here, will it? It's getting a bit boring, especially since none really does more than complain.

Especially systemd. Declarative management of services is a bad thing? Some people just wanna complain

But haven't you heard that systemd is an evil project made by Microsoft to somehow destroy Linux and make everyone use Windows? It must be true because I saw it on Reddit.

Re: I hate: Programming Wayland applications

#40

Post by James_K »

dzogchen wrote: post #8
diath wrote: post #3

Wayland was designed from the point of view of theoretical purists. It's basically "how would a display server work in an ideal world", unfortunately, that design turns out to also be impractical and straight up developer/user hostile.

It is a damn shame that tools like xdotool (automation) and sxhkd (global keybinds) are impossible to recreate under Wayland.

I'm using Sway right now and I have key binds. Not sure why you think that's impossible.
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