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Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

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Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#31

Post by protocolture »

mindwok wrote: post #20

British democracy and government is cool. It's not enshrined in some document they got together and wrote down like the US constitution, it's this organic thing that they've stumbled towards over the last ~800 years with small changes like this one gradually evolving them into a modern liberal democracy.

I see brits describing it as "Dictatorship with Democratic characteristics" and "3 weasels leading the 4th rabid weasel around by the tail" it doesnt seem "cool" by any stretch, except maybe if it was fictional and the people it hurt were not real.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#32

Post by KK7NIL »

kbelder wrote: post #24
theodric wrote: post #11

The point of the hereditary peerage was the same as the point of having a non-elected Senate. Now both will have been lost in the name of "democracy" - a system of government that constantly fails to do either what is the desire of the people OR what is truly in their interests. From here on out it'll just be whoever manages to connive their way into power through connections, payola, corruption, island meetups, and…

How about a chamber populated by random lottery? Like jury duty?

Perhaps you're joking, but Athenian democracy had a significant amount of randomness, with candidates being chosen randomly from the top vote winners. Terms were also only 1 year for most positions.

These, and other systems, helped prevent any one person from monopolizing power.

This is a good video on this: https://youtu.be/pIgMTsQXg3Q

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#33

Post by pjc50 »

mindwok wrote: post #20

British democracy and government is cool. It's not enshrined in some document they got together and wrote down like the US constitution, it's this organic thing that they've stumbled towards over the last ~800 years with small changes like this one gradually evolving them into a modern liberal democracy.

I go back and forth on this. It's a lot like the palace of Westminster itself: charming, whimsical, historical, connected to the past, hopelessly impractical, postponing repairs until things break, and at significant risk of being burned down.

On the other hand it avoids the illusion that power resides in a text and that you can legal-magic your way past a power structure.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#34

Post by dylan604 »

coldtea wrote: post #16
dude250711 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, getting rid of nobility is how USSR lived happily ever after.

Well, for all USSRs issues, getting rid of their nobility was one of the best things they did.

It's what fills the vacuum that matters, just as POTUS is finding out in Iran. If you don't have a plan for after creating the vacuum, you're probably not going to be happy with how it is filled

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#35

Post by pjc50 »

rvz wrote: post #26
mindwok wrote: post #20

British democracy and government is cool. It's not enshrined in some document they got together and wrote down like the US constitution, it's this organic thing that they've stumbled towards over the last ~800 years with small changes like this one gradually evolving them into a modern liberal democracy.

> British democracy and government is cool. Oh sweet summer child. The government there does not care about you and will promise anything to get another 5 years in power despite causing the issues they promised to solve in the first place. You are essentially voting in the same party to be in government and progress there moves in the hundreds of years; hence the riddance of the scam that is unelected hereditary nobl…

In fairness, this is not unique to Britain. For America read "4" instead of "5".

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#37

Post by protocolture »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #13

> The case of Peter Mandelson, who resigned from the Lords in February after revelations about his friendship with the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, drew renewed attention to the upper chamber and the problem of lords behaving badly. But Mandelson wasn't a hereditary noble. His example is an argument for abolishing the House of Lords entirely (which I agree with in any case) but not specifically for ejecting her…

>Why does the House of Lords need to be replaced at all? Most countries are gridlocked enough with one chamber of parliament.

Depends how it is designed. The australian senate, before 2015 or so, used to contain enough fun cooks that legislation had to get broad support to make it through. It was a pretty decent check against the beige dictatorship. But since they updated the voting rules to prevent the cool minor parties from holding the balance, its just been a massive rubber stamp. I loved seeing randos from minor parties getting to grill public servants on whatever their constituents were complaining about, particularly firearm legislation.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#38

Post by pjc50 »

throwaway7783 wrote: post #30
amadeuspagel wrote: post #13

> The case of Peter Mandelson, who resigned from the Lords in February after revelations about his friendship with the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, drew renewed attention to the upper chamber and the problem of lords behaving badly. But Mandelson wasn't a hereditary noble. His example is an argument for abolishing the House of Lords entirely (which I agree with in any case) but not specifically for ejecting her…

Does House of Lords have any real power today?

Sort of. They can and do amend bills, but they can't overrule the Commons on anything the latter regards as important.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#40

Post by KK7NIL »

graypegg wrote: post #5
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #3

“…a compromise that will see an undisclosed number of hereditary members allowed to stay by being ‘recycled’ into life peers.” What? Are the membership roles and the text of this law confidential?

Odd! I think this is the bill? https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3755/publications It's rather hard to read because the amendments are written as a diff, but it seems to imply the undisclosed number is 87 peers. I guess they need to decide amongst themselves who the lucky 87 are? https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/59-01/0295... Bill 295 2024-25 (Lords Amendments) “1. (2) (2) No more than 87 people at a…

> It's rather hard to read because the amendments are written as a diff

That's a feature, not a bug ;).[0]

0: Any episode of "Yes, Minister!"

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