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Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

politico.eu

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Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#31

Post by Scoundreller »

cyberax wrote: post #20
philip1209 wrote: post #13

Oslo has been doing this for years. I wrote a blog post about my learnings there - "Engineering over enforcement": > Enforcement philosophy is rooted in the idea that behavior can be controlled by threatening punishments. Engineering philosophy believes that infrastructure can be designed to incentivize desired behavior. When Oslo sought to reduce pedestrian deaths, it turned to engineers. > [ . . .] Intersections ar…

[flagged]

I'm confused: what didn't work in Seattle/SF/Portland?

Enforcement didn't work because people won't follow the law anyway or engineering didn't work because people tried to drive through the obstacles or approach them with the same speed and smashed/smooshed more?

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#32

Post by w55 »

bokchoi wrote: post #9
cyberax wrote: post #3

Meanwhile, pedestrian deaths are up in all the large coastal US cities that went full-on with the "Zero Vision" policies. Seattle, Portland, SF enshittified their roads, limited the traffic speed, choked the streets with bike lanes, drank all the KoolAid. Yet the deaths _increased_.

Pedestrian deaths in Seattle did rise last year, however there were zero bicycle related fatalities which is good.

[dead]

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#33

Post by skrrtww »

suzdude wrote: post #10

It is sad how little U.S. voters seem to care about anyone but themselves. Near everything the Finns are dong could be done in here, but too many voices would complain about the cost, the paternalism, or how they might be slightly inconvenienced. Those seem like harder challenges then the changes themselves.

When I was 12, I watched a redneck in a pickup truck try to race the light rail downtown and cut across the road in front of it, only to get T-boned by the railcar against a nearby station. It was the middle of the day and the guy was definitely sober.

People in the U.S. are simply constructed differently, and as a result I think are unfortunately immune to a lot of the subtle forces that generally help to improve safety in other civilized societies.

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#34

Post by tstrimple »

puskavi wrote: post #29

whole city has been made incredibly painful to drive your own car, so no wonder. still not worth it, as public transport can only get you so far

“These saved human lives aren’t worth my inconvenience.”

What the actual fuck is wrong with you?

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#35

Post by bitwize »

cyberax wrote: post #3

Meanwhile, pedestrian deaths are up in all the large coastal US cities that went full-on with the "Zero Vision" policies. Seattle, Portland, SF enshittified their roads, limited the traffic speed, choked the streets with bike lanes, drank all the KoolAid. Yet the deaths _increased_.

The general consensus on HN appears to be that that's because Americans are just shitty.

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#36

Post by piva00 »

RickS wrote: post #30
efebarlas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to learn more about “it did not work in the us… excess deaths” Do you have a link handy for this?

https://www.elkandelk.com/washington/seattle-car-accident-st... Since it started in 2015, accidents are down 50%, but deaths up 90%. This analysis leaves a lot to be desired. I didn't see per-capita stats (Seattle had massive growth during a lot of those years), and we don't really enforce traffic laws at all anyway, so IDK what to think without digging in further.

How have average car sizes and weight changed in this period of time?

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#38

Post by piva00 »

puskavi wrote: post #29

whole city has been made incredibly painful to drive your own car, so no wonder. still not worth it, as public transport can only get you so far

You can drive a car until public transit isn't an issue and change modes there. Removing cars from city centres should be the bare minimum for a more livable city, and in decently planned cities the area where cars are inconvenient to drive intersects exactly where public transit is good.

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#39

Post by jacquesm »

RandallBrown wrote: post #25
maest wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need to go faster in a city center?

You probably don't need to go faster in the city center, but you need to get to the city center somehow.

You don't need more speed, you need better planning.

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#40

Post by tablarasa »

cyberax wrote: post #3

Meanwhile, pedestrian deaths are up in all the large coastal US cities that went full-on with the "Zero Vision" policies. Seattle, Portland, SF enshittified their roads, limited the traffic speed, choked the streets with bike lanes, drank all the KoolAid. Yet the deaths _increased_.

In California it seems a lot of cities decided to try and add bike infrastructure but the design process yielded many compromises, since that infrastructure comes at the expense of car (and parking) infrastructure. As a result we got really bad bike lanes, but gave up few parking spots. The design process declared victory via compromise- best of both worlds. In reality, the bike lanes are worthless and cyclists like myself just use the primary vehicle lanes, since not dying is more important than protecting the convenience and respecting the supremacy of other road users. Drivers honk and yell and deliberately endanger you, but that was true before too.

The article talks about using design and engineering out of the problem. I do not believe that is what was done in the cities you cite, even if that was their headline intention.

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