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Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

tovejansson.com

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Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#31
post #27
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a children's book and probably isn't anymore.

How could that status ever chance? Being widely read by adults doesn't change if its an children's book or not.

Theoretically it could change via literacy rates and attention spans going down?

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#32

I'm always of two minds about this kind of stuff. First of, the illustrations are great. I love them. Separate though, if they don't represent the original material then why not just make some new IP instead if effectively taking a piss on someone else's?

The "original material" was modified significantly - Tove's illustration of Gollum, e.g., was not inconsistent with the 1937 edition she was working from, before Tolkien rewrote the scene to bring it more in-line with the version of the character from the Lord of the Rings in the second edition.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#33
post #11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Hobbit is also a whimsical children's book, and doesn't have anything to do with saving the world (a world that Tolkien had not developed anywhere near the state in we see in LoTR when he wrote The Hobbit almost 20 years earlier).

It was a children's book and probably isn't anymore.

Rest assured, I can personally confirm that it is still a wonderful children's book.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#34
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As presented, Gollum is badly off, I reckon - missing the books textual description. The flowers are out of line. This is addressed in the article. "Paul Gravett writes in his new book about Tove Jansson: ‘Her Gollum towered monstrously large, to the surprise of Tolkien himself, who realized that he had never clarified Gollum’s size and so amended the second edition to describe him as ‘a small, slimy creature’." We…

Tolkien made significant changes to the Gollum chapter. In the first edition Gollum gives up the ring willingly. The ring was not yet the Ring, and Gollum was not yet a Hobbit. The man took retcons as an intellectual challenge. Sometimes the retcon itself spun off a whole new story. But it makes The Hobbit really incompatible with its own sequel, even after his changes. (You have to read it as having a very unreliabl…

> You have to read it as having a very unreliable narrator.

Perhaps even Bilbo himself. :) One can imagine him telling a heavily fictionalized version of his adventures to some impressionable young hobbits.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#35
It has a real “where the wild things are” feel…which is the art used to decorate my local library.

A lot of people have chosen to take the Hobbit as seriously as its older brother—-including Peter Jackson—-and have missed out on the absurd, beautiful childishness of the whole thing.

The Hobbit does a wonderful job of introducing the ideas and characters of LotR in a way which is accessible for children and I think the art presented here is a valid artistic take on a children’s book about a dragon.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#36
post #8

I... actually really liked these. And yes, sure, they aren't completely obedient to Tolkien's descriptions of the characters, but the atmosphere feels right. But then again, I grew up with the Moomins.

Moomins don't depict anything like saving the world, it's a whimsical universe dealing with whimsical non-issues. I can see why Tolkien lovers are upset at these even though I'm not really one of them.

It wouldn’t be “Tolkien lovers” who are upset at these, it would be people too narcissistically self-involved with their own preconceptions.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#37
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tolkien made significant changes to the Gollum chapter. In the first edition Gollum gives up the ring willingly. The ring was not yet the Ring, and Gollum was not yet a Hobbit. The man took retcons as an intellectual challenge. Sometimes the retcon itself spun off a whole new story. But it makes The Hobbit really incompatible with its own sequel, even after his changes. (You have to read it as having a very unreliabl…

> You have to read it as having a very unreliable narrator. Perhaps even Bilbo himself. :) One can imagine him telling a heavily fictionalized version of his adventures to some impressionable young hobbits.

Indeed: the intro to The Lord of the Rings explains that previous editions of The Hobbit, where the ring was a gift rather, were Bilbo's original lie to cover up the theft. Perhaps that was all the influence of the Ring itself.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#38
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat whimsical, yet somewhat grappling with dark undertones, possibly due to the trauma of the war. The moomins starts with a great flood that washes them all away to live in a new place (I think this is a parallel to the Finns moving out of Karelia after the war. I believe this was the largest migration of people that had occured at the time, and it has been described as causing generational trauma to the Finnis…

Fantastic creatures diving to retrieve their pantry supplies or the head of a family grappling with a mild midlife crisis is not exactly on the same scale with a band of warriors reclaiming their homeland and in passing dealing with the eternal evil.

[deleted]

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#39
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As presented, Gollum is badly off, I reckon - missing the books textual description. The flowers are out of line. This is addressed in the article. "Paul Gravett writes in his new book about Tove Jansson: ‘Her Gollum towered monstrously large, to the surprise of Tolkien himself, who realized that he had never clarified Gollum’s size and so amended the second edition to describe him as ‘a small, slimy creature’." We…

Tolkien made significant changes to the Gollum chapter. In the first edition Gollum gives up the ring willingly. The ring was not yet the Ring, and Gollum was not yet a Hobbit. The man took retcons as an intellectual challenge. Sometimes the retcon itself spun off a whole new story. But it makes The Hobbit really incompatible with its own sequel, even after his changes. (You have to read it as having a very unreliabl…

Clarifying question -- what do you mean Gollum was not yet a Hobbit? I don't think he ever was - but a river folk before the ring deprived him wasn't he? I never read first edition so I suspect there are some differences as you allude. (ring not being the ring).

Actually - in the creative process did he kick off the Hobbit then expand into the world building as an after thought and turn the one ring into this wild expansive creative endeavor? I always assumed it had been pre-built in his mind then spilled out in ink (As a sequence of events).

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#40
post #39
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tolkien made significant changes to the Gollum chapter. In the first edition Gollum gives up the ring willingly. The ring was not yet the Ring, and Gollum was not yet a Hobbit. The man took retcons as an intellectual challenge. Sometimes the retcon itself spun off a whole new story. But it makes The Hobbit really incompatible with its own sequel, even after his changes. (You have to read it as having a very unreliabl…

Clarifying question -- what do you mean Gollum was not yet a Hobbit? I don't think he ever was - but a river folk before the ring deprived him wasn't he? I never read first edition so I suspect there are some differences as you allude. (ring not being the ring). Actually - in the creative process did he kick off the Hobbit then expand into the world building as an after thought and turn the one ring into this wild ex…

Gollum was a river hobbit corrupted by the ring
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