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Dyson settles forced labour suit in landmark UK case

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Re: Dyson settles forced labour suit in landmark UK case

#31

Why do employers deny their employees toilet breaks? Do they actually believe it makes the employees more productive, or are they just cruel people?

Coincidentally in Eastern Germany they (or so I heard) had a "keys to the toilet" trope, meaning that whoever managed to obtain any kind of position (being entrusted with controlling access to a vital facility) could and often would then go and take advantage of it by expecting bribes-in-kind from people.

Re: Dyson settles forced labour suit in landmark UK case

#32

Why do employers deny their employees toilet breaks? Do they actually believe it makes the employees more productive, or are they just cruel people?

There are countries where white collar office workers are banned from having drinks, including even a bottle of water at their desks.

You'd be amazed what is legal or at least normalized/tolerated when regulations are weak.

Re: Dyson settles forced labour suit in landmark UK case

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers are not always very smart. It took humanity half a millennium to realise slavery is inefficient and ditch it. Go figure.

Slavery is unfortunately still a thing in too many parts of the world.

Including the US.

And 68% of American adults don't even know it [0]. Not to mention all the foreign slavery in the supply chain, or all the slavery we've directly enabled by 'toppling dictators' who wouldn't give us their shit.

0 - https://www.merkley.senate.gov/is-slavery-still-legal-in-the...

Re: Dyson settles forced labour suit in landmark UK case

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers are not always very smart. It took humanity half a millennium to realise slavery is inefficient and ditch it. Go figure.

Slavery wasn't inefficient and was highly profitable for slaveholders.

Not as profitable for robot owners today

Re: Dyson settles forced labour suit in landmark UK case

#35

Why do employers deny their employees toilet breaks? Do they actually believe it makes the employees more productive, or are they just cruel people?

Like someone mentioned already, it's a demonstration of power. But it goes well beyond that: it's about domination, discipline, constant monitoring, the reduction of individual agency, humiliation (you need permission for a basic human need) etc. The labour process theory says that that management systems are not only about coordinating work but about securing control over workers, that the drive for efficiency is also a drive for managerial control, including monopolising judgement and pacing work from above [0]

In many cases it's an intentional dehumanisation of the workers - they're seen as assets or numbers, as a type of machines that should be worked to their maximum physical and mental capacity and that are not owed any dignity [x], as if work is nothing more than mechanics. Foucault (in his "Discipline and Punish") speak about how disciplinary power produces "docile bodies" by making bodies more useful and easier to control, breaking functions and movements into optimised segments. [1] This is consistent with how the capitalist workplace normally operates, where employers want to control workers' time and actions, not just the finished product. We could see the toilet restriction just as an extreme, contemporary expression of the same thing. [2] For example, dodgy Amazon does that by making bathroom use hard and uses strict worker monitoring mainly as control/discipline thing, a sort of integrated control architecture (crazy pace + surveillance + comparison + dystopian ranking and whatnot) [3][6]

For all his faults, Heidegger's point (especially in his writing on technology) is relevant here, as he claims that modern systems tend to treat everything as a resource to be ordered, measured, and used. He says that things and people get turned into "standing-reserve" (basically stock to be managed) [4]

Many employers believe that loo breaks should happen in a workers' own time [5], which is both ridiculous and an shirking of responsibility towards society from businesses (which has always been the case).

What is certain is that this is certainly not as a serious productivity argument, despite what predatory companies like Amazon claim [z], because this kind of treatment can have (and often does, like the article shared above shows as well) severe consequences for health, dignity, and productivity. [7]

The fact that regulatory bodies like OSHA in the US, and especially in the EU, recognise the abuse pattern shows it's not just anecdote or rhetoric (like the Economist and similar papers often suggest), or that it applies to countries that aren't as developed as we like to think we are in the US and the UK, but a real issue that's rather common.

Also relevant: https://www.un.org/en/observances/toilet-day

[0] https://academic.oup.com/cpe/article/43/1/61/7684997

[1] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/foucault/

[2] https://academic.oup.com/past/article-abstract/38/1/56/14546...?

[3] https://cued.uic.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/219/2023/10/Pa...

[4] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/heidegger/

[5] https://www.tuc.org.uk/research-analysis/reports/give-us-loo...

[6] https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/09/they-treat-us-worse-than-an...

[7] https://sif.org.uk/why-workplace-toilet-access-matters/

[x] https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/nov/19/thousands-uk-w...

Re: Dyson settles forced labour suit in landmark UK case

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a demonstration of power. Which is exactly why it needs fighting against, because these people (i.e. Dyson) must not have power.

But why only demonstrate power over 12 people and not the alleged 1200+ that work there?

Tell me when Justice condemns a corrupt billionaire to piss himself.

Re: Dyson settles forced labour suit in landmark UK case

#37

Why do employers deny their employees toilet breaks? Do they actually believe it makes the employees more productive, or are they just cruel people?

It's a demonstration of power. Which is exactly why it needs fighting against, because these people (i.e. Dyson) must not have power.

Not actually Dyson, one of their parts suppliers.

The significance of this ruling is that a British company can be held liable for its suppliers' treatment of workers in anther country.

Re: Dyson settles forced labour suit in landmark UK case

#39

Why do employers deny their employees toilet breaks? Do they actually believe it makes the employees more productive, or are they just cruel people?

It could be that they are complete psychopaths with no respect for human life, or it could be that a minority of employees abuse toilet breaks but labour protection laws make them unfireable.

Re: Dyson settles forced labour suit in landmark UK case

#40
post #3

James Dyson advocated for Brexit on the basis of supporting British industry, and shortly afterwards migrated the company HQ to Singapore.

And to prove it is possible to have a profitable vacuum cleaner manufacturing business that makes its machines in the UK - long live Henry! https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jul/24/how-hen... And unlike Dyson they are almost indestructible!

Few years back (before covid) I splashed out on a fancy Dyson. Worst vacuum cleaner ever. I'm sporting a Vax now, quite good, even runs VMS.
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