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Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

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Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#31

Post by rdtsc »

varispeed wrote: post #28
rdtsc wrote: post #26

For what's it worth for an N=1 study I watched a relative's young family fall apart because of cannabis induced psychosis. They had two young kids, husband was smoking pot recreationally (not sure how long he was doing that) but at some point he started hearing aliens talking to him from the cracks in the wall. Naturally you can't just keep doing all the regular life and family stuff when you have more pressing issue…

There is no established causal link between the two. Cannabis is so ubiquitous that it is often the case that people with underlying psychiatric problems find it calms them and then blame cannabis for it if they get worse, because that's saving face in a twisted way. Link is not the same as "it causes it".

Good point, you may very well be right. But seeing how that tragedy unfolded was enough to convince me at least to never consider it, just in case there is a causal effect.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#32

Post by zug_zug »

jimnotgym wrote: post #20

As well as the correlation/causation problem... From what I hear, cannabis on sale today is rather stronger than when I was young. That sounds bad to me. Curiously I see this as a pro-legalization arguement, if it were available in a shop I could select a mild flavour, rather than the skunk that the criminals grew, and is all that is on offer

I've heard that too but if you go to any dispensary you can get a gummy with an exact dosage of THC and CBD on the label. It's actually a much superior system now to backchannel dried flower.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#33

Post by everdrive »

leptons wrote: post #15
everdrive wrote: post #14

Marijuana legalization arguments were my first introduction to motivated reasoning. I was pretty inclined to agree that locking up non-violent drug offenders was a net-harm to society. But, the pro-legalization folks would argue patently crazy things: it cures cancer, the smoke isn't bad for you at all, there are no downsides! etc. It seemed obvious to me that you could make a more realistic argument and just stick t…

>But, the pro-legalization folks would argue patently crazy things: it cures cancer, the smoke isn't bad for you at all, there are no downsides! etc. Using the most anecdotally crazy people you met to suggest that the pro-legalization movement is crazy, is frankly, crazy. I'm very involved in legalization and I don't know anyone that is for legalization that thinks any of those things, never even heard anyone say suc…

>Using the most anecdotally crazy people you met to suggest that the pro-legalization movement is crazy, is frankly, crazy.

This was over 20 years ago, long before "nut-picking" became impossible to avoid. This is what I was hearing from my peers on my college campus. They may have had had extreme views, but this was long before modern social media surfaced only the craziest people for any given position.

>Using the most anecdotally crazy people you met to suggest that the pro-legalization movement is crazy, is frankly, crazy.

Also, I disagree with this characterization. I am not crazy, it was unnecessarily rude to suggest otherwise. I'm repeating the arguments I heard from my actual peers. I'm not just finding extremists on the internet and painting the whole group by its worst members.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#34

Post by andrewflnr »

bluGill wrote: post #17
leptons wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But, the pro-legalization folks would argue patently crazy things: it cures cancer, the smoke isn't bad for you at all, there are no downsides! etc. Using the most anecdotally crazy people you met to suggest that the pro-legalization movement is crazy, is frankly, crazy. I'm very involved in legalization and I don't know anyone that is for legalization that thinks any of those things, never even heard anyone say suc…

I know that I too say and heard those arguments a lot. You do yourside a disservice by claiming it doesn't exist

Good thing they didn't claim any such thing, then.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#35

Post by estearum »

ecshafer wrote: post #19
everdrive wrote: post #14

Marijuana legalization arguments were my first introduction to motivated reasoning. I was pretty inclined to agree that locking up non-violent drug offenders was a net-harm to society. But, the pro-legalization folks would argue patently crazy things: it cures cancer, the smoke isn't bad for you at all, there are no downsides! etc. It seemed obvious to me that you could make a more realistic argument and just stick t…

I am firmly against marijuana legalization. This is partially because of this insanity of the pro-legalization arguments. When I would see friends/family that started smoking regularly become noticeably less intelligent while pro-legalization proponents would argue there are no negative side-effects, or people who were obviously compelled to smoke every day or as often as they could.... like some sort of addiction, w…

> I am firmly against marijuana legalization. This is partially because of this insanity of the pro-legalization arguments.

this is also just motivated reasoning

The insanity of the fringe pro-legalization arguments has no bearing on whether legalization is a good idea or not.

> When I would see friends/family that started smoking regularly become noticeably less intelligent while pro-legalization proponents would argue there are no negative side-effects

This is also just ripe for cognitive bias which is why we should use science to understand these types of claims.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#36

Post by interestpiqued »

zug_zug wrote: post #32
jimnotgym wrote: post #20

As well as the correlation/causation problem... From what I hear, cannabis on sale today is rather stronger than when I was young. That sounds bad to me. Curiously I see this as a pro-legalization arguement, if it were available in a shop I could select a mild flavour, rather than the skunk that the criminals grew, and is all that is on offer

I've heard that too but if you go to any dispensary you can get a gummy with an exact dosage of THC and CBD on the label. It's actually a much superior system now to backchannel dried flower.

Yeah but it’s hard to even find a 5mg these days. Most are 10 or 20 by me. Edibles aren’t immune from the increase in dosage.

Edit: also these aren’t pharma companies. It may have gotten better but I think manufacturing consistency isn’t good either. Highest I’ve ever been was from a single “2.5 mg”

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#37

Post by AlexandrB »

yieldcrv wrote: post #22
everdrive wrote: post #14

Marijuana legalization arguments were my first introduction to motivated reasoning. I was pretty inclined to agree that locking up non-violent drug offenders was a net-harm to society. But, the pro-legalization folks would argue patently crazy things: it cures cancer, the smoke isn't bad for you at all, there are no downsides! etc. It seemed obvious to me that you could make a more realistic argument and just stick t…

all legalization frameworks in the US already limit legal age of purchasing possession and consumption to 21 and over, specifically as a form of seeding ground to the opposition, specifically for the previously only anecdotal link to psychosis and underdeveloped minds of minors

It's weird to frame regulating cannabis the same way we regulate other recreational drugs as some kind of compromise. Is the ideal pro-cannabis situation that anyone can buy it at any age?

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#38

Post by zug_zug »

intrasight wrote: post #29
zug_zug wrote: post #27

So just for context "Based on data from 2023–2025, approximately 15% to 17% of American adults currently consume cannabis." - Gallup So though this may be technically true in some sense, it should also be understood that if cannabis had any major immediate drastic effects we would have noticed them decades ago. Perhaps weed, like alcohol, needs a legal minimum age of 21.

> major immediate drastic effects Very few things in life pass that test, which is why we have research studies

Right we have studies, and they are 30 page documents that only academics read, and so they get poorly summarized by articles that try to make them sound more noteworthy than they are. Usually by saying "X linked to Y" without establishing causality or even if that link is a significant risk (is it a .1% increase in risk?)

When it's a drug more than 10% of the US population uses, we can immediately say the risk increase can't really be that big or we'd have noticed it by now.

Edit: after looking at the paper, it looks like among the weed group the prevalence is roughly twice as high -- so instead of 1/100 having psychotic issue it'd be 2/100... and again for people who used when they were 13-17 year olds, which is underage in every state.

So you could frame that as doubling the risk OMG, or a 1 percentage point increase in risk, or it could all just be self-medicating, we really don't know much. Probably still safer than alcohol.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#39

Post by tlb »

rdtsc wrote: post #26

For what's it worth for an N=1 study I watched a relative's young family fall apart because of cannabis induced psychosis. They had two young kids, husband was smoking pot recreationally (not sure how long he was doing that) but at some point he started hearing aliens talking to him from the cracks in the wall. Naturally you can't just keep doing all the regular life and family stuff when you have more pressing issue…

Whether or not cannabis makes psychosis more likely isn't proven, but your N=1 study illustrates how bad it often is. People should know that psychosis isn't just having some weird ideas, but often destroys lives and families.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#40

Post by aaomidi »

ecshafer wrote: post #19
everdrive wrote: post #14

Marijuana legalization arguments were my first introduction to motivated reasoning. I was pretty inclined to agree that locking up non-violent drug offenders was a net-harm to society. But, the pro-legalization folks would argue patently crazy things: it cures cancer, the smoke isn't bad for you at all, there are no downsides! etc. It seemed obvious to me that you could make a more realistic argument and just stick t…

I am firmly against marijuana legalization. This is partially because of this insanity of the pro-legalization arguments. When I would see friends/family that started smoking regularly become noticeably less intelligent while pro-legalization proponents would argue there are no negative side-effects, or people who were obviously compelled to smoke every day or as often as they could.... like some sort of addiction, w…

I never understand this line of thinking.

So the easiest way for an opposition to a good idea to get their way, is to go argue insane things on the opposite side?

Imagine if the oil industry starts paying people to go throw soup on paintings just to make the pro “let’s prevent climate change” people look stupid.

Oh. Wait.

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