Live data from Hacker News

What I Learned After Building 3 TV Apps Coming from Mobile

dinkomarinac.dev

31–40 of 49 posts

Re: What I Learned After Building 3 TV Apps Coming from Mobile

#31

I'd be curious why Amazon's Prime app has such horrible performance compared to literally every other streaming service, on WebOS at least (on a relatively recent LG OLED). They're all doing more or less the same thing, as far as I can tell as a user at least, yet just moving the focus around in Amazon's streaming app takes 0.5 second while it's instant in other apps. The bandwidth for actual streaming seems the same…

I'm still astonished how poorly optimized the YouTube app is/has always been on Apple TV. It's fucking wild how slow they can make it move about a bunch of rectangular icons, the same unit that can run honest to goodness videogames (if simple ones). Though I suppose my XBox Series X can run Halo Infinite at 4K/60hz (with a ton of asterisks) and still chokes on the main menu which is also coincidentally a bunch of rec…

I don't think I've ever noticed any problems with the YouTube app on our Apple TV?

Re: What I Learned After Building 3 TV Apps Coming from Mobile

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still astonished how poorly optimized the YouTube app is/has always been on Apple TV. It's fucking wild how slow they can make it move about a bunch of rectangular icons, the same unit that can run honest to goodness videogames (if simple ones). Though I suppose my XBox Series X can run Halo Infinite at 4K/60hz (with a ton of asterisks) and still chokes on the main menu which is also coincidentally a bunch of rec…

I don't think I've ever noticed any problems with the YouTube app on our Apple TV?

Really it's the only Apple TV app that I regularly have issues with! Sometimes it opens to just a blank gray screen, sometimes you start a video and sits there waiting to start endlessly and doesn't play anything, sometimes it won't send the audio to connected Homepods for mysterious reasons, and even when it works it is so unbelievably slow.

The Nebula app also isn't great, but at least it functions, even if it too is slower that molasses in January.

Re: What I Learned After Building 3 TV Apps Coming from Mobile

#33
I am at a point where I just installed Bazzite on a mini-itx PC and bought a gyroscope mouse (also called a flymouse) and use steam big picture mode. Access to a proper browser (with adblock) and a proper keyboard more than makes up for the UX problems.

I just wish modern browsers had the (old pre-chromium) Opera browser style of spatial navigation, gyroscope mouses work well enough but spatial navigation is the main feature I miss since I switched off old Opera

https://blog.codinghorror.com/spatial-navigation-and-opera/

Re: What I Learned After Building 3 TV Apps Coming from Mobile

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I've ever noticed any problems with the YouTube app on our Apple TV?

Really it's the only Apple TV app that I regularly have issues with! Sometimes it opens to just a blank gray screen, sometimes you start a video and sits there waiting to start endlessly and doesn't play anything, sometimes it won't send the audio to connected Homepods for mysterious reasons, and even when it works it is so unbelievably slow. The Nebula app also isn't great, but at least it functions, even if it too…

I think I've once had it freeze and I had to restart the device - but when it is working it is quite snappy. I don't even think its the device - we upgraded from quite an old Apple TV model to a new one and it was equally usable on both.

Re: What I Learned After Building 3 TV Apps Coming from Mobile

#35
post #5

I always found most tv apps have some performance issues. I've seen netflix, prime, even youtube crash, lag, or have some issues now and then that just made me think that maybe tvs are just not powerful. Don't even want to talk about Disney+, HBO, or Hulu. Then I got an appletv+ subscription, and was pleasantly surprised it performed far better, on an android tv even. I wonder if it's beyond just the company standard…

TV's are optimized around decoding video, At least they can generally do this at full speed, this is coupled with the cheapest cpu the manufacturer can find. Even this would be manageable, There have been great UI's on weaker hardware. But then they want to program everything in html/javascript/css 7 layer lasagna stacks, this is where things start to get bad. Then the marketing team gets their slimy hands in and proceed to stuff the telemetry in until full. It is still "technically" usable, but nobody is enjoying the experiance. Package it up and sell it to some rube as a "Smart" TV.

Re: What I Learned After Building 3 TV Apps Coming from Mobile

#36

I'd be curious why Amazon's Prime app has such horrible performance compared to literally every other streaming service, on WebOS at least (on a relatively recent LG OLED). They're all doing more or less the same thing, as far as I can tell as a user at least, yet just moving the focus around in Amazon's streaming app takes 0.5 second while it's instant in other apps. The bandwidth for actual streaming seems the same…

Amazon are bad at consumer software, with the exception perhaps of the kindle. Emphasis on consumer, because they have fantastic enterprise/cloud engineers.

They have, frankly, some of the worst UI/UX design of any company in the same spaces that they exist in. Look at even their store listings, it’s a complete mess of information sprawled over the pages.

They do not optimize for performance or have a culture of squashing UI bugs unless it’s measurably stopping conversion for them.

Hell there’s even been times I’ve reported html issues to their teams and been asked to provide the CSS fixes to them to integrate in.

Re: What I Learned After Building 3 TV Apps Coming from Mobile

#37
post #36

I'd be curious why Amazon's Prime app has such horrible performance compared to literally every other streaming service, on WebOS at least (on a relatively recent LG OLED). They're all doing more or less the same thing, as far as I can tell as a user at least, yet just moving the focus around in Amazon's streaming app takes 0.5 second while it's instant in other apps. The bandwidth for actual streaming seems the same…

Amazon are bad at consumer software, with the exception perhaps of the kindle. Emphasis on consumer, because they have fantastic enterprise/cloud engineers. They have, frankly, some of the worst UI/UX design of any company in the same spaces that they exist in. Look at even their store listings, it’s a complete mess of information sprawled over the pages. They do not optimize for performance or have a culture of squa…

Never understood this about Amazon. Alexa is a perfect example. When the Echo devices came out around 10 years ago they blew people away with voice UI, and yet the Alexa app was and is a poorly made web wrapper with car infotainment levels of menu-driven UX. Any chance they had of making Alexa a real consumer product died with that piss poor app and the clumsy way they implemented Skills.

Re: What I Learned After Building 3 TV Apps Coming from Mobile

#38
Interesting, explains why there are so few good TV apps like YouTube eg Spotify TV app is appalling. Strange that X has not created a decent TV App for long form video. YouTube could do with some competition, great UI but their suggestion algorithm and woke censorship sucks.

Re: What I Learned After Building 3 TV Apps Coming from Mobile

#39
post #23

I'm sorry Dinko, but this ain't it. > On TV, input works very differently. Users navigate with a remote. Movement is discrete. Every interaction requires intention. Each action is one step in a sequence. That difference changes everything. I just don't want to read articles that are written by LLMs. If there was something you earnestly learned that you think other engineers could benefit from, use your own words to t…

I write all my articles by hand for the first draft and the final polish. I do use LLMs in between to try to get a clearer message (to what I find appropriate). I understand if you don't want to read it, but there is nothing dishonest about this article. I've lived through what I wrote with those 3 apps. Take it as you wish and have a good day.

I think even if you only use LLMs for “getting a clearer message” you’ll find that it contaminates your writing.

Re: What I Learned After Building 3 TV Apps Coming from Mobile

#40
post #35
post #5

I always found most tv apps have some performance issues. I've seen netflix, prime, even youtube crash, lag, or have some issues now and then that just made me think that maybe tvs are just not powerful. Don't even want to talk about Disney+, HBO, or Hulu. Then I got an appletv+ subscription, and was pleasantly surprised it performed far better, on an android tv even. I wonder if it's beyond just the company standard…

TV's are optimized around decoding video, At least they can generally do this at full speed, this is coupled with the cheapest cpu the manufacturer can find. Even this would be manageable, There have been great UI's on weaker hardware. But then they want to program everything in html/javascript/css 7 layer lasagna stacks, this is where things start to get bad. Then the marketing team gets their slimy hands in and pro…

> But then they want to program everything in html/javascript/css 7 layer lasagna stacks, this is where things start to get bad.

The alternative is that every TV SoC has its own SDK and most of them don't get [your preferred streaming app]. Those apps that get ported would probably perform better, but most TV makers don't want to take the risk of missing out on an app that will lead customers to someone else. LG and Samsung do stand apart with WebOS and Tizen, but those aren't exactly high performing UXes either.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure if 'UX is not so bad' is a marketable feature for a TV, much as I'd like it to be.

My personal journey has led me to stand alone Rokus, but I'd love to find something that can do "everything": I want to play blu-ray 4k discs from the network, without transcoding and with the full hdr10+ (when available) and bitstreamed atmos and the silly menus, regular blu-ray and dvd too; I would like a selection of top teir streaming apps to work properly (at least Netflix and Amazon, one of the heavily ad supported one that has a lot of 80s tail content too would be nice); it needs to have a spouse acceptable interface; shouldn't cost more than $100.

Roku + optical player works pretty well. My living room tv has that; I'm running out of patience for apps running on the projector in the theater, and it'd be nice if I could get a new box that replaces apps and the optical player so I could move the 4k optical player to the living room.

People say Apple TV or NVidia Shield, but they're both pricy and I'm not sure either really does 4k BluRay with menus?

Post reply on HN