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My 1981 adventure game is now a multimedia extravaganza

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Re: My 1981 adventure game is now a multimedia extravaganza

#31

Post by jader201 »

jimmaswell wrote: post #25
gyomu wrote: post #21

> Almost nobody programs computers in machine language. Mostly, programmers work in high-level programming languages that simplify many aspects of the job. Thanks to AI, I realized, English is just an extraordinarily high-level programming language. And vibe coding is coding. It's funny how people feel the need to repeat that last mantra. Kind of similar to the "listening to audiobooks is reading" crowd. Compare two…

> Kind of similar to the "listening to audiobooks is reading" crowd. Is this supposed to be an implicit dig at audiobooks? The scientific consensus seems to be that there's no difference to comprehension or retention. https://time.com/5388681/audiobooks-reading-books/

You’re proving the exact point of the OP arguing against the “And vibe coding is coding.” statement.

You’re focusing only on the results, and not the difference in cognitive function necessary to achieve those results.

An illiterate person can “read” an audiobook.

Just like a person that knows zero about coding could (theoretically) vibe code a program with similar/same results.

So yes, if you focus 100% on only the results, then it could be argued they’re the same.

But the OP is saying there’s more to doing something than just the results.

Re: My 1981 adventure game is now a multimedia extravaganza

#33

Post by coldtea »

jimmaswell wrote: post #25
gyomu wrote: post #21

> Almost nobody programs computers in machine language. Mostly, programmers work in high-level programming languages that simplify many aspects of the job. Thanks to AI, I realized, English is just an extraordinarily high-level programming language. And vibe coding is coding. It's funny how people feel the need to repeat that last mantra. Kind of similar to the "listening to audiobooks is reading" crowd. Compare two…

> Kind of similar to the "listening to audiobooks is reading" crowd. Is this supposed to be an implicit dig at audiobooks? The scientific consensus seems to be that there's no difference to comprehension or retention. https://time.com/5388681/audiobooks-reading-books/

>Is this supposed to be an implicit dig at audiobooks? The scientific consensus seems to be that there's no difference to comprehension or retention

I wouldn't trust that "scientific consensus" if my life dependent on it.

For starters, there's no scientific consensus.

The linked post refers to merely 2 studies, both of doubtful quality. And one says "it's no different", the other says it's worse.

The one that says "it's no different" asked them to read/listen to mere two chapters of total ~ 3000 words.

That's a Substack essay or New Yorker article level, not a book, and only of one text type (non-fiction historical account. How does it translate to literature, technical, theoritical, philosophical, and so on?). The test to check retention was multiple choice - not qualitative comprehension. And several other issues besides.

And on the other study in the post, the audio group performed much worse.

Re: My 1981 adventure game is now a multimedia extravaganza

#34

Post by coldtea »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #24
gyomu wrote: post #21

> Almost nobody programs computers in machine language. Mostly, programmers work in high-level programming languages that simplify many aspects of the job. Thanks to AI, I realized, English is just an extraordinarily high-level programming language. And vibe coding is coding. It's funny how people feel the need to repeat that last mantra. Kind of similar to the "listening to audiobooks is reading" crowd. Compare two…

Sure but you could be saying that about calculators vs pen and paper math. At some point you will need to abandon this position.

It's also valid for calculators vs pen and paper math.

Calculators make calculation much easier, but people doing math with them lose a sizable part of their mathematic skills.

To the point of kids not being able to do a simple addition or multiplication or percentage calculation (never mind division) with a calculator, even when someone used to pen and paper can trivially doing with just their mind.

Re: My 1981 adventure game is now a multimedia extravaganza

#35

Post by coldtea »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #28
gyomu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s more like solving a math problem yourself (whether with tools like pen & paper, or a calculator), vs asking an AI agent to solve the problem for you.

Right but only because you've mentally tagged using a calculator with "doing it by yourself" and using AI as "not doing it by yourself". In both cases you are doing it by yourself in one sense and not doing it by yourself in another.

In the AI case the "not doing it by yourself" sense is much much much much much much more correct.

Re: My 1981 adventure game is now a multimedia extravaganza

#36

Post by ido »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #24
gyomu wrote: post #21

> Almost nobody programs computers in machine language. Mostly, programmers work in high-level programming languages that simplify many aspects of the job. Thanks to AI, I realized, English is just an extraordinarily high-level programming language. And vibe coding is coding. It's funny how people feel the need to repeat that last mantra. Kind of similar to the "listening to audiobooks is reading" crowd. Compare two…

Sure but you could be saying that about calculators vs pen and paper math. At some point you will need to abandon this position.

I think grade school kids learning arithmatics shouldn't use a calculator & highscool pupils/collegue students/junior devs learning to program shouldn't use AI to generate code until they learned how to do it manually for the same reason (the temptation to let the machine do it for you & thus not learn is too great).

Re: My 1981 adventure game is now a multimedia extravaganza

#37

Post by scandox »

atoav wrote: post #29
jimmaswell wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kind of similar to the "listening to audiobooks is reading" crowd. Is this supposed to be an implicit dig at audiobooks? The scientific consensus seems to be that there's no difference to comprehension or retention. https://time.com/5388681/audiobooks-reading-books/

Yet it is not the same. The person who has read a thousand books is better at reading than the person who instead listened to them.

Better at reading yes but not necessarily better at comprehension which is what I believe people are getting at in these discussions. I read and listen. Initially my comprehension and memory while listening was inferior, but you can learn the skill of deep concentration on audio (or some may have it natively).

Re: My 1981 adventure game is now a multimedia extravaganza

#38

Post by anthk »

All of the Scott adams adventures are ported to the ZMachine. If you did so with that, your game would be played everywhere, even more with Puny Inform. Even under old PDA's, Game Boy's, everywhere.

Any IF archive mirror should have these packed into a zip file (look up at Google/DDG with the terms 'IF archive mirror'). Then, search for "Scott Adams" (Ctrl-f) and all of these should be bundled in a zip file (actually, two zip files). In order to play them, there's Lectrote even for Android and maybe Mac and iOS, for PC's there's Frotz for Unix/GNU-Linux and WinFrotz for Windows shines (and it has accessibility options for the blind).

If you are an Emacs user you can just install Malyon from MELPA and play them as if it were another interpreter.

Re: My 1981 adventure game is now a multimedia extravaganza

#39

Post by bondarchuk »

jimmaswell wrote: post #25
gyomu wrote: post #21

> Almost nobody programs computers in machine language. Mostly, programmers work in high-level programming languages that simplify many aspects of the job. Thanks to AI, I realized, English is just an extraordinarily high-level programming language. And vibe coding is coding. It's funny how people feel the need to repeat that last mantra. Kind of similar to the "listening to audiobooks is reading" crowd. Compare two…

> Kind of similar to the "listening to audiobooks is reading" crowd. Is this supposed to be an implicit dig at audiobooks? The scientific consensus seems to be that there's no difference to comprehension or retention. https://time.com/5388681/audiobooks-reading-books/

I think GP is making a subtler point, not that listening to audio books is worse than reading books with your eyes, but that it's telling that people who listen to audio books themselves go out of their way to emphasize that it's equivalent to reading, thus betraying that in their own value system they put a higher value on (actual) reading.

Re: My 1981 adventure game is now a multimedia extravaganza

#40

Post by mmustapic »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #24
gyomu wrote: post #21

> Almost nobody programs computers in machine language. Mostly, programmers work in high-level programming languages that simplify many aspects of the job. Thanks to AI, I realized, English is just an extraordinarily high-level programming language. And vibe coding is coding. It's funny how people feel the need to repeat that last mantra. Kind of similar to the "listening to audiobooks is reading" crowd. Compare two…

Sure but you could be saying that about calculators vs pen and paper math. At some point you will need to abandon this position.

Digitally painting an image is completely different from asking an AI to make one. Writing a short story is very different from asking an AI to write it. Same with arithmetics, problem solving, coding.
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