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Pocketblue – Fedora Atomic for mobile devices

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Re: Pocketblue – Fedora Atomic for mobile devices

#31

Post by curt15 »

exceptione wrote: post #19
nikodunk wrote: post #2

This is based on bootc (bootable containers), so note that the OS build is described in a normal Dockerfile: https://github.com/pocketblue/pocketblue/blob/main/Container... which is then run by the Github action (or locally). Very similar to how Universal Blue, Bazzite, Bluefin etc. build at https://github.com/ublue-os/bazzite (see their Containerfile), but for mobile. Has a similar mission to https://postmarketos.or…

> Dockerfile nitpick: Containerfile. I mention it because people still think container==docker. I am sure the Fedora people focus on podman, as part of the Red Hat ecosystem. For a better dev experience they offer podman-bootc¹, which you will miss when using Docker. Personally I am convinced that we should steer people to podman instead of Docker. 1. https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/bootc/getting-started/

Red Hat obviously wants to change people's vocabulary but "Dockerfile" is basically an industry-standard generic term by this point.

Re: Pocketblue – Fedora Atomic for mobile devices

#32

Post by exceptione »

curt15 wrote: post #31
exceptione wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dockerfile nitpick: Containerfile. I mention it because people still think container==docker. I am sure the Fedora people focus on podman, as part of the Red Hat ecosystem. For a better dev experience they offer podman-bootc¹, which you will miss when using Docker. Personally I am convinced that we should steer people to podman instead of Docker. 1. https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/bootc/getting-started/

Red Hat obviously wants to change people's vocabulary but "Dockerfile" is basically an industry-standard generic term by this point.

That is true, the same for "to google" if people mean "to search". It does bury the generality of the concept though. Like I said, a nitpick.

Re: Pocketblue – Fedora Atomic for mobile devices

#34

Post by curt15 »

exceptione wrote: post #20
arianvanp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really bringing OCI to freaking OS builds? Nothing about OCI is pleasant. A list of Tarballs is the most backwards boot format I can think of. Terrible for reproducibility. Terrible for security. Boot images should be Dm-verity protected EROFS images. We should not be building new things on OCI. It's really mind-blowing to me that this is a new direction people who are supposed to be top of class OS builders a…

> Dm-verity protected EROFS images First time I hear about it. Playing the devils advocate: how does it improve over checksums + tarballs?

checksums + tarballs don't help with runtime integrity verification. You'll need additional technologies for that like dm-verity or fs-verity; see composefs.

Re: Pocketblue – Fedora Atomic for mobile devices

#35

Post by realusername »

NoboruWataya wrote: post #27

How well does it work on the supported devices, including for things like calls, SMS, GPS, camera, bluetooth etc? The OnePlus 6/6T is in the "community" category of supported devices for postmarketOS and (like most devices in that category) has a laundry list of issues with hardware support that either need workarounds or just don't work at the moment. Does Pocketblue have the same limitations? Mobile Linux is a supe…

The reason most of these projects target OnePlus 6 as their flagship is that this device is fully upstreamed to the Linux mainline.

Re: Pocketblue – Fedora Atomic for mobile devices

#38

Post by Gander5739 »

realusername wrote: post #22
Tepix wrote: post #17

Oh, Linux on mobile. My cynic take: - only works with very few phone models - battery doesn’t last long - bad UI with tiny elements. - not managing a smooth refresh rate - no apps That‘s the pattern we‘ve seen over and over again. The only approach that has worked better is to base things on AOSP.

AOSP doesn't run on a single phone on earth, not even the android emulator. Android also has it's own problems.

But custom roms based on it do, like lineageos and grapheneos.

Re: Pocketblue – Fedora Atomic for mobile devices

#39

Post by saltamimi »

looperhacks wrote: post #21
arianvanp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really bringing OCI to freaking OS builds? Nothing about OCI is pleasant. A list of Tarballs is the most backwards boot format I can think of. Terrible for reproducibility. Terrible for security. Boot images should be Dm-verity protected EROFS images. We should not be building new things on OCI. It's really mind-blowing to me that this is a new direction people who are supposed to be top of class OS builders a…

How is OCI terrible for reproducibility and security? They are certainly more reproducible than what we had before. I haven't heard "Works on my machine for a long time". If you're talking about reproducible builds, there aren't any hard issues either that are directly caused by OCI images - except setting the clock correctly. > Boot images should be Dm-verity protected EROFS images Maybe I'm misunderstanding you - I…

For the record, bootc supports and has workflows for verity images.

Re: Pocketblue – Fedora Atomic for mobile devices

#40

Post by linmob »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #29
NoboruWataya wrote: post #27

How well does it work on the supported devices, including for things like calls, SMS, GPS, camera, bluetooth etc? The OnePlus 6/6T is in the "community" category of supported devices for postmarketOS and (like most devices in that category) has a laundry list of issues with hardware support that either need workarounds or just don't work at the moment. Does Pocketblue have the same limitations? Mobile Linux is a supe…

> Mobile Linux is a super interesting but difficult area so always good to see another effort in the space, hopefully Pocketblue and postmarketOS can benefit from each other. Yea. I hope the same thing. I just wish that a defacto affordable device can finally emerge and the whole process can just be made easier and people might even base their hardware decisions on top of it. A lot of the times I find Mobile Linux un…

> because a lot of essential features only work in phones which are extremely expensive with less specs compared to its peers and in normal phones

I assume you are refering to the Librem 5? These days the Google Pixel 3a is coming close, as multiple people report reliable phone calls. Camera is still lacking, but once libcamera add auto-focus and the device gets a driver for the focus actuator (already in the works), it's going to be just as competent with better battery-life for less than USD/EUR 100. On the more pricey side, the Fairphone 5 has a good mind share and contributor count, making it quite likely that remaining issues are being solved soon.

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