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Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

aethermug.com

31–40 of 102 posts

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#31
post #7

> The basic force behind all culture formation is imitation We are also limited by the linguistic structures we inhabit. And many languages have multiple variants. There is the respectful, obedient "formal" variant used at the workplace and the informal "colloquial" used in other places.

The "strong" sapir-whorf hypothesis, that cognitive and behavioral categories are limited by linguistic ones, is thoroughly discredited. At most they may influence our perceptions, but they do not constrain them.

Linguistics is one of the fields where HN consensus goes directly against the scholarly mainstream of the discipline for what I mostly find to be ideological reasons. So hopefully this isn't that and you're just a bit out of date. But there's been a big reevaluation of this in the last twenty years and virtually no contemporary working linguists represent the strong relative view anymore. It simply did not consistently produce useful results and has been abandoned.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your opinion that there is something non-material about Humans?

Are you interchangeable with a few mounds containing the exact same amount of the same molecules as your body?

In the exact same configuration? Yes.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#33

> And culture is, by and large, random, arbitrary, and self-reinforcing. The best definition of "culture" I've ever found is "how we do things 'round here". It's valid in both the large and in the small. Of course, why and how we converge on those norms is mysterious, and the anthropologists, the psychologists, and etc. can have a go at explaining those parts. I can't.

At its core, I believe the phenomenon of culture is intertwined with the hard problem of consciousness, which is notoriously circular and self-referential and roughly speaking “how we do/feel things ’round here” is potentially not far from the best we can do. Cultural baggage, for the lack of a better word, drives how we tend to approach reality (holistically or by dividing and classifying things, monistically or dua…

> culture is intertwined with the hard problem of consciousness

Majority of people are sleep-walking as machines driven by imitation, habit and external forces. We live in a dreamlike, mechanical state lacking the awareness of this itself. apropos: Gurdjieff

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Materialism is not fundamental; consciousness is What is your epistemological basis for this claim? Any proof of this? And just for extreme clarity note: at no point have I made a claim yet

The human concept of materialism appears to have been produced by historical humans who were also conscious, which at least sets an order. To call this into question is to render logical debate incoherent. Materialism is a theory, not a reality, but its adherents can't tell the difference.

So your epistemology is historicism?

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#35
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your opinion that there is something non-material about Humans?

Humans are nearly defined by their access to the abstract. The abstract is definitionally non-material.

I dunno about that, latent spaces are looking pretty material these days. I've got several variants saved to my local disk.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At its core, I believe the phenomenon of culture is intertwined with the hard problem of consciousness, which is notoriously circular and self-referential and roughly speaking “how we do/feel things ’round here” is potentially not far from the best we can do. Cultural baggage, for the lack of a better word, drives how we tend to approach reality (holistically or by dividing and classifying things, monistically or dua…

> culture is intertwined with the hard problem of consciousness Majority of people are sleep-walking as machines driven by imitation, habit and external forces. We live in a dreamlike, mechanical state lacking the awareness of this itself. apropos: Gurdjieff

Very uncharitable and questionable on a few levels. Every human exists in context of society, no human exists standalone—the very definition of self, as in self-awareness, has the existence of other as a prerequisite. People you see are perfectly aware of themselves; it’s just that awareness of yourself does not mean you have to violate societal norms and show how individual you are all the time—at best, it requires a more acute awareness of norms (you have to know what to violate first, cf. all the various counter-cultures), making one more socially integrated and in some ways paradoxicay less individual; at worst (if you are properly disconnected) it makes one less of a human, not more.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#37
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Materialism is not fundamental; consciousness is What is your epistemological basis for this claim? Any proof of this? And just for extreme clarity note: at no point have I made a claim yet

The human concept of materialism appears to have been produced by historical humans who were also conscious, which at least sets an order. To call this into question is to render logical debate incoherent. Materialism is a theory, not a reality, but its adherents can't tell the difference.

> To call this into question is to render logical debate incoherent.

Unfortunately there are quite a few things of that nature. In no case does it justify blindly picking one of the options and then following up with bold claims based on an arbitrary assumption.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#39
post #28

Queueing culture is hilarious. Indians > Italians (ok, Italians are probably more entertaining), brits (I imagined them trying to bring queueing to indians and gave up... although india does have a semi-line culture in limited ways nowadays). As an american, grocery checkout queueing always angered me.

Queuing culture is just baseline respect from my POV. Same with not littering, respecting shared (public) resources, etc.

Actually quite unbelievable to see it considered hilarious.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Materialism is not fundamental; consciousness is. This assumes materialism as fundamental.

> Materialism is not fundamental; consciousness is What is your epistemological basis for this claim? Any proof of this? And just for extreme clarity note: at no point have I made a claim yet

Whether monastic materialism or idealism is correct would be an unfalsifiable claim within the framework of natural scientific method. (That method is designed to help us make predictions; interpreting experimental outcome for a statement of objective truth is a misapplication of scientific method.) An existing natural-scientific model can be referenced in a philosophical argument, but the argument remains a philosophical statement. A philosophical argument can still be debated on other merits—e.g., which alternative grants magical objective existence to more arbitrary entities, or such.
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