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WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

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Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#31

Post by fragmede »

avidiax wrote: post #18
jbotz wrote: post #11

Paper: https://dl.acm.org/doi/epdf/10.1145/3719027.3765062

I don't feel that this article is a fair summary of the paper. And the title is just clickbait. The paper says, in a somewhat contrived scenario, with dozens of labelled walkthroughs per person, they can identify that person from their gait based on CSI and other WiFi information. This is a long way from identifying one person in thousands or tens of thousands, being able to transfer identifying patterns among statio…

It feels rather more than a little bit creepy to realize that Comcast et al, and thus the US government (if you live there), laundered through 3rd party data brokers, knows if you're sleeping and knows if you're awake. Knows if you've been bad or good, for ICE/ATF/DEA/SEC's sake.

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#32

Post by vasco »

sponaugle wrote: post #26

This is a VERY controlled environment - and they used 20 passes of each person walking with direct knowledge of each person to train for identity. They did no tests with multiple people walking at the same time, or with any other external moving distortion effects (doors opening, etc) . This is very far from actual 'identification' of people in real public settings - and no doubt the cell phone everyone is carrying w…

Well nowadays you individually track by using mac addresses and other network information from the devices within range. Cisco has some creepy real time maps of your location with each person walking around and all their previous visits etc

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#33

Post by pimterry »

mahrain wrote: post #22
bnjms wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you say what products make use of this technique? i.e. is it well known like Juniper Mist or not publicly available?

Verizon has a security feature built around this, https://www.xfinity.com/hub/smart-home/wifi-motion Philips WiZ bulbs: https://www.wizconnected.com/en-us/explore-wiz/spacesense Alarm.com also supports such sensors: https://poweredbyalarm.com/eventresources/wp-content/uploads...

There's a big difference between 'presence detection' and 'tracking individuals'. Both in terms of tech and privacy impact.

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#34

Post by avidiax »

vasco wrote: post #32
sponaugle wrote: post #26

This is a VERY controlled environment - and they used 20 passes of each person walking with direct knowledge of each person to train for identity. They did no tests with multiple people walking at the same time, or with any other external moving distortion effects (doors opening, etc) . This is very far from actual 'identification' of people in real public settings - and no doubt the cell phone everyone is carrying w…

Well nowadays you individually track by using mac addresses and other network information from the devices within range. Cisco has some creepy real time maps of your location with each person walking around and all their previous visits etc

Modern phones connect with a randomized MAC address. So yes, you can track a person around, but you will need another system (like the WiFi login page) to match MAC to identity.

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#37

Post by avidiax »

fragmede wrote: post #31
avidiax wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel that this article is a fair summary of the paper. And the title is just clickbait. The paper says, in a somewhat contrived scenario, with dozens of labelled walkthroughs per person, they can identify that person from their gait based on CSI and other WiFi information. This is a long way from identifying one person in thousands or tens of thousands, being able to transfer identifying patterns among statio…

It feels rather more than a little bit creepy to realize that Comcast et al, and thus the US government (if you live there), laundered through 3rd party data brokers, knows if you're sleeping and knows if you're awake. Knows if you've been bad or good, for ICE/ATF/DEA/SEC's sake.

Comcast is late to the party, then. AT&T has been selling your information for decades. And your mobile provider can track you anyplace that there's a cell-signal, potentially even outside the country.

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#38

Post by bitbytebane »

avidiax wrote: post #18
jbotz wrote: post #11

Paper: https://dl.acm.org/doi/epdf/10.1145/3719027.3765062

I don't feel that this article is a fair summary of the paper. And the title is just clickbait. The paper says, in a somewhat contrived scenario, with dozens of labelled walkthroughs per person, they can identify that person from their gait based on CSI and other WiFi information. This is a long way from identifying one person in thousands or tens of thousands, being able to transfer identifying patterns among statio…

[flagged]

Re: WiFi could become an invisible mass surveillance system

#39

Post by wcunning »

sponaugle wrote: post #26

This is a VERY controlled environment - and they used 20 passes of each person walking with direct knowledge of each person to train for identity. They did no tests with multiple people walking at the same time, or with any other external moving distortion effects (doors opening, etc) . This is very far from actual 'identification' of people in real public settings - and no doubt the cell phone everyone is carrying w…

This is going into the next Wifi standard specifically to get this data off of normal wifi traffic.
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