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Launching the Rural Guaranteed Minimum Income Initiative

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Re: Launching the Rural Guaranteed Minimum Income Initiative

#31

Post by cosmic_cheese »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #27
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These statements paint with a rather broad brush. There are parts of the US that are so impoverished that it defies belief and more closely resemble pre-industrialization countries than they do what most associate with the United States. They also ignore that even if other rural areas are technically speaking more rich than the rest of the world, still struggle with an extreme shortage of opportunity, upward mobility…

I grew up on a farm. I'd far rather be rural poor in America than middle class in the third world.

I would be too, but I can also see how someone in such a situation could feel depressed, hopeless, and neglected, particularly with the sheer amount of wealth other parts of their own country are producing.

Re: Launching the Rural Guaranteed Minimum Income Initiative

#32

Post by OGEnthusiast »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #31
bryanlarsen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up on a farm. I'd far rather be rural poor in America than middle class in the third world.

I would be too, but I can also see how someone in such a situation could feel depressed, hopeless, and neglected, particularly with the sheer amount of wealth other parts of their own country are producing.

Maybe they should try not voting for a fascist three times in the row if they expect sympathy from the "rest of their own country".

Re: Launching the Rural Guaranteed Minimum Income Initiative

#33

Post by Sparkle-san »

evanjrowley wrote: post #10
Sparkle-san wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not rural Americans? When helping someone in my community, I don't first stop and analyze whether my time/money could be better allocated to maximize some sort of utilitarian loss function, I help them because they're there, need my help, and I'm able to help.

I don't disagree with you, but there is value in considering how money could be best put to use for the common good. One perspective overlooked here is the purchasing power of non-Americans (i.e., not U.S. citizens). Dollars in developing countries can be worth multiple times what they are in the United States. For example, you could help 5000 rural Vietnamese for every 1000 rural Americans. There is also a higher po…

There's a lot of value in helping out locally as well.

I don't have as much lived experience of someone in Vietnam as I do someone in my community. Nor do I understand the language or the culture. There's more overhead in making it happen and there will likely be a lot of things I'll never take into account or understand. On the other hand, I know what it's like living in a HCOL state where many jobs don't pay enough for a family to survive and have struggled in my own past. Could my money have more purchasing power elsewhere? Sure. And they're still people in my community struggling and I have the power to help them and a greater understanding of what they're facing. Community seems to get discounted a lot in the discussion around effective altruism and I think that's unfortunate.

Re: Launching the Rural Guaranteed Minimum Income Initiative

#34

Post by wang_li »

ranprieur wrote: post #19

This is better than nothing, but the big advantage of the UBI is that there is no bureaucracy deciding who gets it and doesn't get it. If there are any conditions on the income, then there's a constant danger that the program will become another tool of control.

Feb 1: receive monthly UBI payment Feb 2: spend all of it on strippers/drugs/alcohol/twinkies/etc. Feb 3: I'm hungry.

Unless you are prepared to let the idiots starve to death, UBI will never work.

Re: Launching the Rural Guaranteed Minimum Income Initiative

#35

Post by cwillu »

wang_li wrote: post #34
ranprieur wrote: post #19

This is better than nothing, but the big advantage of the UBI is that there is no bureaucracy deciding who gets it and doesn't get it. If there are any conditions on the income, then there's a constant danger that the program will become another tool of control.

Feb 1: receive monthly UBI payment Feb 2: spend all of it on strippers/drugs/alcohol/twinkies/etc. Feb 3: I'm hungry. Unless you are prepared to let the idiots starve to death, UBI will never work.

Yes yes, your 30 word dismissal completely obliterates all contrary evidence.

Re: Launching the Rural Guaranteed Minimum Income Initiative

#36

Post by [deleted] »

wang_li wrote: post #34
ranprieur wrote: post #19

This is better than nothing, but the big advantage of the UBI is that there is no bureaucracy deciding who gets it and doesn't get it. If there are any conditions on the income, then there's a constant danger that the program will become another tool of control.

Feb 1: receive monthly UBI payment Feb 2: spend all of it on strippers/drugs/alcohol/twinkies/etc. Feb 3: I'm hungry. Unless you are prepared to let the idiots starve to death, UBI will never work.

[deleted]

Re: Launching the Rural Guaranteed Minimum Income Initiative

#39

Post by GuinansEyebrows »

OGEnthusiast wrote: post #32
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be too, but I can also see how someone in such a situation could feel depressed, hopeless, and neglected, particularly with the sheer amount of wealth other parts of their own country are producing.

Maybe they should try not voting for a fascist three times in the row if they expect sympathy from the "rest of their own country".

if we want a better place to live, we have to stop basing social welfare availability on political extortion.

positive change is slow and revenge politics makes it slower.

Re: Launching the Rural Guaranteed Minimum Income Initiative

#40

Post by evanjrowley »

Sparkle-san wrote: post #33
evanjrowley wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you, but there is value in considering how money could be best put to use for the common good. One perspective overlooked here is the purchasing power of non-Americans (i.e., not U.S. citizens). Dollars in developing countries can be worth multiple times what they are in the United States. For example, you could help 5000 rural Vietnamese for every 1000 rural Americans. There is also a higher po…

There's a lot of value in helping out locally as well. I don't have as much lived experience of someone in Vietnam as I do someone in my community. Nor do I understand the language or the culture. There's more overhead in making it happen and there will likely be a lot of things I'll never take into account or understand. On the other hand, I know what it's like living in a HCOL state where many jobs don't pay enough…

What I know for sure is, if I could, I would invest my money into clean drinking water infrastructure for both communities. Helping families pay the water company to distribute jugs of filtered drinking water is great, but infrastructure that's not contaminated would be so much better for everyone.
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