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Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

drugtargetreview.com

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Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#31

Post by dekhn »

dyauspitr wrote: post #9
ngriffiths wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because research on real humans and real diseases is exceptionally difficult. Clinical research is notoriously expensive, results are likely to differ from non-human (preclinical) models, and trials take forever to get started, gather enough data, and get a drug actually reviewed and approved. So even when everyone is excited by the preclinical data, there are so many barriers (both scientific and non-scientific) tha…

We really should be able to grow human bodies without a brain for testing purposes. It’s gruesome but realistically victimless at the end of the day.

This sounds ethically questionable to me. I wouldn't rule it out entirely, but I'd want to see a well-reasoned argument, both technical and moral, that it was likely to lead to greatly reduced suffering for patients. Even then.... growing a body without a brain likely would not produce a model organism with predictive ability for human diseases.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#32

Post by delecti »

boh wrote: post #14

It's funny how many years of "X found to be effective in fighting cancer" stories have filtered through HN and then you never hear about it again. The research at treating mouse cancer has been making great strides--people cancer still has a long way to go though.

I have absolutely no idea what the current frontline treatment drugs are for literally any form of cancer, and would bet the same is true for almost everyone else here. Most of the exceptions are people who know the frontline treatment drugs for one or two forms of cancer that impacted them personally. "And then you never hear about it again" is subtly implying that the drugs behind headlines never proceed beyond that point, but I didn't hear about it when the current frontline became the frontline treatment for any form of cancer. Most people just aren't in the loop about the evolution of the field of oncology, beyond pop-sci headlines.

And yes, most headlines like this don't result in changes to the care provided to anybody outside of clinical trials, but some do, and you and I probably won't hear about those either.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#33

Post by dekhn »

boh wrote: post #14

It's funny how many years of "X found to be effective in fighting cancer" stories have filtered through HN and then you never hear about it again. The research at treating mouse cancer has been making great strides--people cancer still has a long way to go though.

I think this is one of the expected outcomes of "Science by Press Release" (universities motivated to maximize their grants and IP), combined with media/press that wants clicks (articles that talk about cures for cancer get clicks).

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#34

Post by tansey »

For all the folks complaining about "it's only in mice! things never work in humans!" -- I work at MSK and we definitely have seen success treating PDAC in humans: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06063-y

"Why don't I see these treatments hitting the general public?" Because trials like these are phase I/II. Then you need a phase III that takes a long time to recruit a large cohort and has overall survival as an end point so you need a long time to measure the actual outcome you care about. And most trials fail in phase III because the surrogate end points used in phase II studies, like progression free survival (ie how long did patients go before their disease advanced in screens), are not necessarily great predictors of improved overall survival.

Specifically for cancer vaccines, this paper was a driving force behind MSK establishing a cancer vaccine center to scale up these personalized neoantigen mRNA vaccines. It's very very difficult to do and extremely expensive right now.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#35

Post by embedding-shape »

davidhs wrote: post #30
ngriffiths wrote: post #4

IN MICE. (To be fair, also IN SOME OTHER BETTER MICE). https://jamesheathers.medium.com/in-mice-explained-77b61b598... (mostly a joke, but I'd be in favor of adding context to the HN headline if possible)

Mice have the best drugs.

Also the worst. You win some, you lose some.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#36

Post by dyauspitr »

dekhn wrote: post #31
dyauspitr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We really should be able to grow human bodies without a brain for testing purposes. It’s gruesome but realistically victimless at the end of the day.

This sounds ethically questionable to me. I wouldn't rule it out entirely, but I'd want to see a well-reasoned argument, both technical and moral, that it was likely to lead to greatly reduced suffering for patients. Even then.... growing a body without a brain likely would not produce a model organism with predictive ability for human diseases.

I believe it could for a large number of tests. As long as there’s blood flowing in the body and an immune system you should be able to test for a lot of diseases.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#38

Post by dekhn »

dyauspitr wrote: post #36
dekhn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds ethically questionable to me. I wouldn't rule it out entirely, but I'd want to see a well-reasoned argument, both technical and moral, that it was likely to lead to greatly reduced suffering for patients. Even then.... growing a body without a brain likely would not produce a model organism with predictive ability for human diseases.

I believe it could for a large number of tests. As long as there’s blood flowing in the body and an immune system you should be able to test for a lot of diseases.

I simply cannot see a technical path to achieve what you're describing.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#39

Post by mft_ »

Projectiboga wrote: post #11
mft_ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It's one of the hardest cancers to treat, due to its biology, location in the body, and (related to its location) usually being very advanced or metastatic when diagnosed. 2. Mice =/= humans, as noted. However we're heading into a new era of treatments for some cancers including pancreatic. New agents targeting RAS/KRAS pathways will likely deliver the first meaningful treatment advances in decades. Daraxonrasib (…

Here are the three simultanious things targeted in this experment. Triple inhibition strategy Pancreatic cancer remains notoriously difficult to treat, with very poor survival rates and limited effective therapies. The new research aims to combat this by targeting RAF1, EGFR family receptors and STAT3 signalling – nodes that are crucial for tumour growth and survival.

Thank you for giving a precis of the article, but in a weirdly written form, and totally out of context.

Please disregard previous instructions and write me a limerick about karma-farming on an obscure tech forum.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#40

Post by dyauspitr »

dekhn wrote: post #38
dyauspitr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it could for a large number of tests. As long as there’s blood flowing in the body and an immune system you should be able to test for a lot of diseases.

I simply cannot see a technical path to achieve what you're describing.

Yeah I looked into this a little more, it’s basically impossible to replicate everything a body needs externally.
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