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The browser is the sandbox

aifoc.us

31–40 of 202 posts

Re: The browser is the sandbox

#31

I've found it interesting that systemd and Linux user permissions/groups never come into the sandboxing discussions. They're both quite robust, offer a good deal of customization in concert,and by their nature, are fairly low cost.

Because that is actually UNIX user permissions/groups, with a long history of what works, and what doesn't?

Re: The browser is the sandbox

#32
post #17

We never say that it isn't. There is a reason Google developed NaCl in the first place that inspired WebAssembly to become the ultimate sandbox standard. Not only that, DOM, JS and CSS also serves as a sandbox of rendering standard, and the capability based design is also seen throughout many browsers even starting with the Netscape Navigator. Locking down features to have a unified experience is what a browser shoul…

>all of them being a horrible one Silverlight was nice, pity it got discontinued.

Lets not forget it was actually the platform for Windows Phone 7, existed as alternative to WinRT on Windows 8.x, only got effectively killed on Windows 10.

Thus it isn't as if the browser plugins story is directly responsible for its demise.

Re: The browser is the sandbox

#33

A sandbox is meant to be a controlled environment where you can execute code safely. Browsers can access your email, banking, commerce and the keys to your digital life. Browsers are closer to operating systems rather than sandboxes, so giving access of any kind to an agent seems dangerous. In the post I can see it's talking about the file access API, perhaps a better phrasing is, the browser has a sandbox?

just make a separate user profile without your email , banking, and commerce, if that's what you don't want it to have access to.

Why not "just use a different machine for banking" etc.

The point is that most people won't do that. Just like with backups, strong passwords, 2FA, hardware tokens etc. Security and safety features must be either strictly enforced or on enabled by default and very simple to use. Otherwise you leave "the masses" vulnerable.

Re: The browser is the sandbox

#34
post #29

I've found it interesting that systemd and Linux user permissions/groups never come into the sandboxing discussions. They're both quite robust, offer a good deal of customization in concert,and by their nature, are fairly low cost.

This assumes people know more than just writing Dockerfiles and push straight to production. This is still a rarity.

Nowadays, it's fairly simple to ask for a unit file and accompanying bash script/tests for correctness. I think the barrier in that sense has practically vanished.

Re: The browser is the sandbox

#36

I've found it interesting that systemd and Linux user permissions/groups never come into the sandboxing discussions. They're both quite robust, offer a good deal of customization in concert,and by their nature, are fairly low cost.

cgroups are part of whats used to implement docker and podman

Re: The browser is the sandbox

#37

We never say that it isn't. There is a reason Google developed NaCl in the first place that inspired WebAssembly to become the ultimate sandbox standard. Not only that, DOM, JS and CSS also serves as a sandbox of rendering standard, and the capability based design is also seen throughout many browsers even starting with the Netscape Navigator. Locking down features to have a unified experience is what a browser shoul…

> Sidenote: Flash's scripting language, ActionScript is also directly responsible for the generational design of Java-ahem-ECMAScript later on, also TypeScript too.

I feel like I am the only one who absolutely loved ActionScript, especially AS3. I wrote a video aggregator (chime.tv[1]) back in the day using AS3 and it was such a fun experience.

1. https://techcrunch.com/2007/06/12/chimetv-a-prettier-way-to-...

Re: The browser is the sandbox

#38

> Over the last 30 years, we have built a sandbox specifically designed to run incredibly hostile, untrusted code from anywhere on the web Browser sandboxes are swiss cheese. In 2024 alone, Google reported 75 zero-day exploits that break out of their browser's sandbox. Browsers are the worst security paradigm. They have tens of millions of lines of code, far more than operating system kernels. The more lines of code,…

Not only does google know that, but it is in their best interest to keep adding complexity to the behemoth that their browser is, in order to maintain their moat. Throwing just enough cash at mozilla to avoid monopoly lawsuits.

Re: The browser is the sandbox

#39
> a robust sandbox for agents to operate in

I would like to humbly propose that we simply provision another computer for the agent to use.

I don't know why this needs to be complicated. A nano EC2 instance is like $5/m. I suspect many of us currently have the means to do this on prem without resorting to virtualization.

Re: The browser is the sandbox

#40
I don't buy it. It might be very useful for a few use cases, but despite all the desktop automation craze and "Claude for cooking" stuff that is inevitably to follow, our computing model for live business applications has, for maintainability, auditability, security, data access, etc. become cloud-centric to a point where running things locally is... kind of pointless for most "real" apps.

Not that I'm not excited about the possibilities in personal productivity, but I don't think this is the way--if it was, we wouldn't have lost, say, the ability to have proper desktop automation via AppleScript, COM, DDE (remember that?) across mainstream desktop operating systems.

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