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The state of modern AI text to speech systems for screen reader users

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Re: The state of modern AI text to speech systems for screen reader users

#31

I have been working on playing around with over 10 stt systems in last 25 days and its really weird to read this article as my experience is the opposite. Stt models are amazing today. They are stupid fast, sound great and very simple to implement as huggingface spaces code is readily available for any model. Whats funny is that the model he was talking about "supertonic" was exactly the model I would have recommende…

Are you using them at 1000 wpm?

Re: The state of modern AI text to speech systems for screen reader users

#32
post #7

What use is human sounding TTS when your desktop cannot read the contents of windows? As someone with progressive retinal tearing who's used the linux desktop for 20 years I'm terrified. The forcing of the various incompatible waylands by the big linux corps has meant the end of support for screen readers. The only wayland compositor that supports screen readers in linux is GNOME's mutter and they literally only adde…

>The only options I have are to use and maintain old X11 linux distros myself. But eventually things like CA TLS and browsers just won't be feasible for me to backport and compile myself. Eventually I'm going to have to switch to using Windows. It's a sad, sad state of things.

Gentoo, duvian and all the bsds will keep x11 around until the heat death of the universe. Anyone who doesn't force systemd on their users also doesn't force Wayland. You have plenty of options before windows.

Re: The state of modern AI text to speech systems for screen reader users

#33

This almost perfectly encapsulates the problems that create friction for new technology. People want/expect the new technology to be an upgraded version of the old technology. "AI is going to make screen readers amazing!" No, that is not what AI is going to do. That is the exact kind of missing the forest for the trees that comes with new tech. AI will be used to act as a sighted person sitting next to the blind pers…

Sure but that's only half the equation. Screen readers with realistic high-speed AI voices are still VERY much necessary since users are not always going to be in an environment where they can talk out loud.

Re: The state of modern AI text to speech systems for screen reader users

#34
post #31

I have been working on playing around with over 10 stt systems in last 25 days and its really weird to read this article as my experience is the opposite. Stt models are amazing today. They are stupid fast, sound great and very simple to implement as huggingface spaces code is readily available for any model. Whats funny is that the model he was talking about "supertonic" was exactly the model I would have recommende…

Are you using them at 1000 wpm?

Supertonic is probably way faster then that, I wouldn't be surprised if measured it would be something like 14k wpm. On my 4090 I was getting about 175x real time while on cpu only it was 55x realtime. I stopped optimizing it but im sure it could be pushed further. Anyways you should check out their repo to test it yourself its crazy what that team accomplished!

Re: The state of modern AI text to speech systems for screen reader users

#35
Funny I've actually been digging into this problem recently. I have a webaudio reimplementation of Klatt 1980 driven by cmudict. It still sounds pretty ass, but it's very early days. This weekend I intend to go deep dive on the Delta rule system that powers Eloquence. There're so many interesting papers from the late 90s early 2000s I bet we could get something pretty remarkable that sounds even better than Eloquence and is incredibly fast and runs anywhere.

Re: The state of modern AI text to speech systems for screen reader users

#36
post #4

Glooming bottom line: So what's the way forward for blind screen reader users? Sadly, I don't know. Modern text to speech research has little overlap with our requirements. Using Eloquence [32-bit voice last compiled in 2003], the system that many blind people find best, is becoming increasingly untenable. ESpeak uses an odd architecture originally designed for computers in 1995, and has few maintainers. Blastbay Stu…

My big takeaway was that a great way AI could help would be to aide in decompiling Eloquence, though I don’t know if there are gotchas there.

I found some sample audio from Eloquence. I like this type of voice!

https://youtu.be/bBp8NP3JTpI

Re: The state of modern AI text to speech systems for screen reader users

#37
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you using them at 1000 wpm?

Supertonic is probably way faster then that, I wouldn't be surprised if measured it would be something like 14k wpm. On my 4090 I was getting about 175x real time while on cpu only it was 55x realtime. I stopped optimizing it but im sure it could be pushed further. Anyways you should check out their repo to test it yourself its crazy what that team accomplished!

Audio synthesis speed is one thing, but is the output _intelligible to a human_ at 1,000wpm? That's the sort of thing Eloquence is being used for, according to the article.

Re: The state of modern AI text to speech systems for screen reader users

#38
post #16

Does having it sound "natural" even matter for high-speed reading? I assumed it would be a hindrance at higher speeds because natural variation and randomness in a voice makes it harder to scan the voice (similar to how reading something handwritten tends to be harder than something that has been typeset). At least that's how I always feel whenever I listen to audiobooks that use "natural" voices - I always switch to…

You are correct. At least in my case, more synthetic voices like Eloquence are easier to understand at high speeds especially because of their 'formulaic' nature. You don't listen to each individual phoneme or letter, you listen more for groups of syllables, tone, etc. The more unpredictable the text to speech, the harder this is. Also, performance is another big point. If you have large bits of silence at the beginning of the audio, or slow attacks, then the responsiveness will suffer, whether that's because of the actual audio itself, or the generation time.

Some of this is surely ssubjective, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only screen reader user with these opinions.

Re: The state of modern AI text to speech systems for screen reader users

#39
post #19

This almost perfectly encapsulates the problems that create friction for new technology. People want/expect the new technology to be an upgraded version of the old technology. "AI is going to make screen readers amazing!" No, that is not what AI is going to do. That is the exact kind of missing the forest for the trees that comes with new tech. AI will be used to act as a sighted person sitting next to the blind pers…

Can you elaborate how an user interface based on conversation is even remotely as efficient as a keyboard-operated screen reader? With a screen reader I can get information out of a web page much quicker than the time it takes me to think how to ”ask” for it. The only advantage with this approach I could see (assuming there would be no hallucinating etc.) is that AI can extract things out of an inaccessible / unfamil…

Not to mention that this seems to completely ignore all the things that we might use computers for. Browsing websites is only one of the things I do. Many of the things I do I think would be extraordinarily clunky through natural language. Also I just do not feel comfortable talking to my computer out loud, especially when I'm anywhere with other people around. Or I don't know... playing games with friends on voice chat. It seems to be common for people to assume that a fix is very easy and simple. LLM's, OCR for screen readers, etc. If it really was as simple as just slapping OCR on everything, it would already have happened. Also I definitely like some privacy and would prefer my computing not to happen entirely through OpenAI, Anthropic or Google, and whether someone can use computers well or not, we shouldn't force them to do that exact thing. At least in my opinion. And that doesn't even go into the costs associated with all of that LLM usage.

Re: The state of modern AI text to speech systems for screen reader users

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supertonic is probably way faster then that, I wouldn't be surprised if measured it would be something like 14k wpm. On my 4090 I was getting about 175x real time while on cpu only it was 55x realtime. I stopped optimizing it but im sure it could be pushed further. Anyways you should check out their repo to test it yourself its crazy what that team accomplished!

Audio synthesis speed is one thing, but is the output _intelligible to a human_ at 1,000wpm? That's the sort of thing Eloquence is being used for, according to the article.

TTS has no intelligence bud. Its only something that transforms text to audio. And that is all that we are talking about here. neither the article or anyone else was discussing the whole stt > llm > tts pipeline.
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