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Italy investigates Activision Blizzard for pushing in-game purchases

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Re: Italy investigates Activision Blizzard for pushing in-game purchases

#31

Post by techpression »

Hamuko wrote: post #2

I hope if they decide on fines that they weigh it against the finances of the entire Microsoft Corporation. Really let Microsoft enjoy the synergy that these large-scale acquisitions bring. Has anyone other than Bobby Kotick and the other previous ABK shareholders benefitted from the acquisition? Xbox hasn’t gotten any more successful as a brand, the consoles aren’t selling, Game Pass subscriptions only keep getting…

I expect Xbox is nothing but a subscription service in five years, no studios and no consoles. The acquisition feels like someone was bored and wanted to spend some money, once they had it they immediately lost interest and now it’s all just fading into obscurity.

Re: Italy investigates Activision Blizzard for pushing in-game purchases

#32

Post by fainpul »

NorwegianDude wrote: post #16

As a game developer myself, I think young kids should not be able to make purchases on their own. But some of the ideas on what needs to be done is just silly. Here is some of the ideas the Norwegian Consumer Council suggested: - All things in games should be shown in real money value, not in game currency that you have to but for real money, and the price should reflect the most expensive way to get the currency. -…

In game purchases are a dumb thing in itself and need to go away. You can sell add-ons for your game as additional packages, like DLC. Users go to the store (e.g. Steam) and buy an add-on to the game. It's priced like a normal article and you can offer discounts if you want.

If you offer something that cannot be handled like that and absolutely has to be "in game", it's probably because you're trying to extort the players by frustrating them or try to exploit psychological weaknesses to make users pay more than they want to and you should stop that.

Re: Italy investigates Activision Blizzard for pushing in-game purchases

#33

Post by throw20251220 »

jimbob45 wrote: post #9
mslate wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you have children, but this is exactly what a healthy government regulatory framework looks like.

Cherry picking the foreign company with the deepest pockets for “crimes” every game developer commits these days? Surely, HN of all places recognizes that the EU fines Meta/MS any time they have a shortfall in their budget.

Hey, Donald! Just don’t send tanks. It’s okay with tariffs but tanks are a no no.

Re: Italy investigates Activision Blizzard for pushing in-game purchases

#34

Post by swiftcoder »

constantcrying wrote: post #24
tokai wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers also want opioids and toxic childrens toys, among other harmful things.

An opioid addiction is no where close to dropping a hundred Euros a month on video games. I doubt that many people on here actually would want to ban adults from spending "too much" money on video games. And my comment is in response to the general sentiment that this represents some kind of "anti-consumer" behavior, when there is a large organic market for this and consumer actively want these features. Personally I…

> I doubt that many people on here actually would want to ban adults from spending "too much" money on video games

The problem is not "spending too much" on videos games. It's the reward structure designed to incentivise one to spend unbounded amounts - just like a casino.

And just like a casino, I don't know that making them fully illegal is the correct way to go. But we surely shouldn't let kids in the casino, or let casinos advertise to kids, etc.

Re: Italy investigates Activision Blizzard for pushing in-game purchases

#35

Post by behringer »

constantcrying wrote: post #24
tokai wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers also want opioids and toxic childrens toys, among other harmful things.

An opioid addiction is no where close to dropping a hundred Euros a month on video games. I doubt that many people on here actually would want to ban adults from spending "too much" money on video games. And my comment is in response to the general sentiment that this represents some kind of "anti-consumer" behavior, when there is a large organic market for this and consumer actively want these features. Personally I…

Yes it is, and we're not talking about a hundred euros. Some people waste their entire paychecks.

Re: Italy investigates Activision Blizzard for pushing in-game purchases

#36

Post by [deleted] »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #17
Hamuko wrote: post #2

I hope if they decide on fines that they weigh it against the finances of the entire Microsoft Corporation. Really let Microsoft enjoy the synergy that these large-scale acquisitions bring. Has anyone other than Bobby Kotick and the other previous ABK shareholders benefitted from the acquisition? Xbox hasn’t gotten any more successful as a brand, the consoles aren’t selling, Game Pass subscriptions only keep getting…

> I hope if they decide on fines that they weigh it against the finances of the entire Microsoft Corporation. For more serious offenses I agree that should be the norm, but we're talking about mobile games being annoying. Even with the "won't someone think of the children" angle it sounds excessive. What have we really lost from mobile Call of Duty not being better? > Has anyone other than Bobby Kotick and the other…

[deleted]

Re: Italy investigates Activision Blizzard for pushing in-game purchases

#37

Post by constantcrying »

swiftcoder wrote: post #34
constantcrying wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An opioid addiction is no where close to dropping a hundred Euros a month on video games. I doubt that many people on here actually would want to ban adults from spending "too much" money on video games. And my comment is in response to the general sentiment that this represents some kind of "anti-consumer" behavior, when there is a large organic market for this and consumer actively want these features. Personally I…

> I doubt that many people on here actually would want to ban adults from spending "too much" money on video games The problem is not "spending too much" on videos games. It's the reward structure designed to incentivise one to spend unbounded amounts - just like a casino. And just like a casino, I don't know that making them fully illegal is the correct way to go. But we surely shouldn't let kids in the casino, or l…

>The problem is not "spending too much" on videos games. It's the reward structure designed to incentivise one to spend unbounded amounts - just like a casino.

I do not think you understand how these games work or how they incentivize spending. Lootboxes and gachas work very different to a Casino and equating their reward structure just makes no sense at all. Psychologically they work in very different ways.

I hate to be defending lootboxes and gachas, but the psychology behind those is very different to how a Casino works. Gambling addicts are at an especially high risk of suicide, because they expect some amount of returns on their gambling activity, if those returns fail to materialize the player can be in immense debt. This just can not happen with a gacha, where you know upfront that every euro you spend is a 100% loss. Again, this should not be a defense of lootboxes, but we have to be honest about these mechanics.

And the psychological mechanisms are also different, gachas and lootboxes appeal very much to a collector mindset, where people play until they get a certain rare digital good, but playing after that would be pointless. This is a different mechanism to gambling in a casino.

>And just like a casino, I don't know that making them fully illegal is the correct way to go.

I see no reason why either should be legal, to be honest. We exclude kids from casinos, because their ability to make informed decisions is limited, but the same is true for a gambling addict. Letting people just ruin their lives for whatever reason seems a pretty insane policy.

Re: Italy investigates Activision Blizzard for pushing in-game purchases

#38

Post by swiftcoder »

constantcrying wrote: post #37
swiftcoder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I doubt that many people on here actually would want to ban adults from spending "too much" money on video games The problem is not "spending too much" on videos games. It's the reward structure designed to incentivise one to spend unbounded amounts - just like a casino. And just like a casino, I don't know that making them fully illegal is the correct way to go. But we surely shouldn't let kids in the casino, or l…

>The problem is not "spending too much" on videos games. It's the reward structure designed to incentivise one to spend unbounded amounts - just like a casino. I do not think you understand how these games work or how they incentivize spending. Lootboxes and gachas work very different to a Casino and equating their reward structure just makes no sense at all. Psychologically they work in very different ways. I hate t…

> Letting people just ruin their lives for whatever reason seems a pretty insane policy

We also have state-run lotteries, which are effectively a form of regressive taxation. Aligning regulations with well-being is an ongoing project

Re: Italy investigates Activision Blizzard for pushing in-game purchases

#39

Post by constantcrying »

swiftcoder wrote: post #38
constantcrying wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem is not "spending too much" on videos games. It's the reward structure designed to incentivise one to spend unbounded amounts - just like a casino. I do not think you understand how these games work or how they incentivize spending. Lootboxes and gachas work very different to a Casino and equating their reward structure just makes no sense at all. Psychologically they work in very different ways. I hate t…

> Letting people just ruin their lives for whatever reason seems a pretty insane policy We also have state-run lotteries, which are effectively a form of regressive taxation. Aligning regulations with well-being is an ongoing project

To be honst I think state run lotteries are a pretty good idea, if they would replace other forms of gambling, which apparently is becoming less and less true, especially with the rise of the completely under regulated prediction markets.

Regarding the subject at hand, I think a very obvious and necessary first step is banning children from participation. Obviously this is easily circumventable, but at will at least be some form of harm reduction.

I think another possibility as a first step is a forced limit on how much an account is allowed to spend in a given time, e.g. the company is only allowed to add digital goods not exceeding X euros to the owners account, together with restrictions on how these items are traded, this will make whaling impossible, which is apparently the most important demographic for developers. [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNjI03CGkb4 ]

Re: Italy investigates Activision Blizzard for pushing in-game purchases

#40

Post by viraptor »

NorwegianDude wrote: post #16

As a game developer myself, I think young kids should not be able to make purchases on their own. But some of the ideas on what needs to be done is just silly. Here is some of the ideas the Norwegian Consumer Council suggested: - All things in games should be shown in real money value, not in game currency that you have to but for real money, and the price should reflect the most expensive way to get the currency. -…

> Bigger purchases give more, because the percentage lost to fees are lower. Tiny amount can not be bought, as it would not make sense considering the per transaction cost.

This is a solved issue in basically any real life commerce. (Depends on the country if it's enforced) You say what your transaction fee is and add it on top. Then people can decide for themselves.

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