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Indifference is a power (2015)

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Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#31

Post by [deleted] »

drakenot wrote: post #9
parpfish wrote: post #4

I can’t help but think that the rise in stoicisms popularity among manosphere types because it lets them repackage a lot of more undesirable masculine traits under a legitimate label— You’re not allowed to feel things. Emotions make you weak. Just suck it up and power through. Bottle it up. Whether those traits a “real stoicism” or not doesn’t matter, because that’s the way it gets spread through TikTok length discou…

I think that’s more a critique of the modern caricature of stoicism than of Stoicism itself. Classical Stoicism isn’t about suppressing emotions. It’s about understanding your emotions, examining where they come from, and choosing how you respond rather than being ruled by them.

[deleted]

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#32

Post by tclancy »

drcongo wrote: post #10
parpfish wrote: post #4

I can’t help but think that the rise in stoicisms popularity among manosphere types because it lets them repackage a lot of more undesirable masculine traits under a legitimate label— You’re not allowed to feel things. Emotions make you weak. Just suck it up and power through. Bottle it up. Whether those traits a “real stoicism” or not doesn’t matter, because that’s the way it gets spread through TikTok length discou…

That's so far away from what stoic practice is. Is that really what TikTok tells you?

As someone who has been interested in actual Stoicism for years, yes, there is a whole industry of people monetizing cherry-picked bullet points to serve up what people already want to hear. The fact it all comes with a less-than-subtle sheen of "Western Thought" widens the audience to not just men who don't think real good, but also racists. Happily, now that can be accelerated with AI as we simultaneously remove actual Greek philosophers from college entirely!

I would love to sit back with some quotation from Marcus Aurelius about how it's not anything I have to worry about, but that's the part I never quite bought into with Stoicism I suppose. So ignore all of the above.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#33

Post by drcongo »

parpfish wrote: post #12
drcongo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's so far away from what stoic practice is. Is that really what TikTok tells you?

The modern/online resurgence of stoicism isn’t driven by people that have studied actual books. It’s being driven by people that are making tiktoks after they learned about it by watching a five minute YouTube video. It’s a very lossy game of telephone.

Well that's pretty depressing, I had no idea.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#34

Post by everdrive »

everdrive wrote: post #11

Actual stoicism is kind of darkly funny. Here's a word-for-word (translated, of course) excerpt from Epictetus: "It's possible to understand what nature wants from situations where we're no different from other people. For example, when a slave breaks someone else's cup we're instantly ready to say 'These things happen.' So when it's a cup of yours that gets broken, appreciate that you have the same attitude as when…

I suppose some of it is also not dark at all, and is simply funny. Here's another excerpt:

"If you're informed that someone or other is speaking ill of you, don't defend yourself against the allegations, but respond by saying: "Well, he must be unaware of my other faults, otherwise these wouldn't have been the only ones he mentioned."

It's stated a bit differently, but this is effectively the exact tact taken by Eminem's competition-winning rap in 8 Mile. "These guys think I'm bad? They missed all this obvious stuff, let me lay out all my faults for you."

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#35

Post by havblue »

While it isn't expressly stoic, I'm liking the gray rock tactic more and more as I age. You can just not fight the people who are rude to you and not engage with ideas that frustrate you. When you reduce your personal connections to what you have direct control over and your actual responsibility, the need to argue with most people is very low.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#39

Post by toss1 »

webdevver wrote: post #23

[flagged]

Right, Marcus Aurelius an Emperor of Rome, successful reformer of it's society, public works, and education, successful leader of it's military, and generally considered one of the leaders of Rome's Golden age, was merely an unsuccessful loser trying to cope.

The only one coping here is the author of the comment, who has evidently entirely mis-understood anything about Stoicism and needs to read more.

Yikes

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#40

Post by koolba »

everdrive wrote: post #34
everdrive wrote: post #11

Actual stoicism is kind of darkly funny. Here's a word-for-word (translated, of course) excerpt from Epictetus: "It's possible to understand what nature wants from situations where we're no different from other people. For example, when a slave breaks someone else's cup we're instantly ready to say 'These things happen.' So when it's a cup of yours that gets broken, appreciate that you have the same attitude as when…

I suppose some of it is also not dark at all, and is simply funny. Here's another excerpt: "If you're informed that someone or other is speaking ill of you, don't defend yourself against the allegations, but respond by saying: "Well, he must be unaware of my other faults, otherwise these wouldn't have been the only ones he mentioned." It's stated a bit differently, but this is effectively the exact tact taken by Emin…

Reminds me of Lincoln being called "two-face" by Douglas and replying “If I had another face, do you think I'd wear this one?”

Self deprecation can indeed be disarming. But it must never cross the point of eliminating self respect. That's when you go from easy going to pure loser.

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