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Circumcision classed as possible child abuse in draft CPS document

theguardian.com

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Re: Circumcision classed as possible child abuse in draft CPS document

#31

Post by Der_Einzige »

cramsession wrote: post #24
leggerss wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is satire, right? Or reasoning by analogy... right?? I looked up "SCP object", and boy that was a rabbit hole. Interesting and entertaining, sure. But if you "fully believe" in anything on that website, please try to confirm your reality with observations or lived experience rather than text from the internet. Here's an excerpt from SCP's "Guide For Newcomers"[1]: > This is the SCP Foundation Wiki, a collaborati…

I don't believe in that and it sounds totally out there, yet it's far less extreme than infant genital mutilation.

That's my point. Yes it's tongue-in-cheek. No I'm not an SCP version of a "furry" or "otherkin" who thinks that their make believe universe is real.

It's an analogy for the INSANITY of the current acceptance of mass circumcision uncritically by the masses.

Re: Circumcision classed as possible child abuse in draft CPS document

#32

Post by kyleee »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #14
sporkxrocket wrote: post #4

Good, it's barbaric child abuse. No other form of permanent body modification surgery (especially to genitals!) would be allowed on infants who can't consent. An adult wants to get circumcised? Go for it. It's pretty wild that we allow it on babies that can't even speak.

[flagged]

Parents can definitely decide how to raise their child, within reason. It is in no way reasonable to conduct a non medical non consensual surgical procedure on your child. Simple as, really.

Re: Circumcision classed as possible child abuse in draft CPS document

#33

Post by HiPhish »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #8

[flagged]

> 7 deaths in 20 years out of who knows how many hundreds of thousands if anything is a testament to how safe the procedure is.

That's still seven deaths too many for a surgery (without anesthetics!) which has no medical necessity. Tonsillectomy is also a very safe procedure, yet we don't just do them willy-nilly because any form of surgery carries its own risk, no matter how small.

Re: Circumcision classed as possible child abuse in draft CPS document

#34

Post by foxglacier »

just_the_tip2 wrote: post #26

In 1996 the Federal Prohibition of Female Genital Mutilation Act made it illegal to perform FGM on minors for non-medical reasons, and in 2013 the Transport for Female Genital Mutilation Act prohibited transporting a minor out of the country for the purpose of FGM. Male genital mutilation on minors for non-medical reasons should also be made illegal. It is amazing Medicaid still pays for it in many states. The Americ…

[flagged]

Re: Circumcision classed as possible child abuse in draft CPS document

#35

Post by HiPhish »

I have seen babies with pierced ears and studs. Even when there is no religious pressure some people are just so sick in their head, they will have their babies put through mutilation just because they think it looks "cute". Those people deserve to have railroad spikes driven through their skin.

I would advocate for banning all non-necessary body modification on small children. And before anyone tells me "it's better to do it when they are small, then they won't remember it": no remembering the source of a trauma makes is even worse. That's like saying date rape drugs are no big deal because the victim can't remember it.

Re: Circumcision classed as possible child abuse in draft CPS document

#36

Post by wrsh07 »

9x39 wrote: post #20
FridayoLeary wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> those that are happy it was done to them specifically as babies Who have no way to know whether they would prefer to not have it done. It’s not FGM, but it’s in the realm of it relative to reduced sensory ability.

In general, I'm surprised by the vitriol in these comments.

I think your claim proves too much:

If you pick a different religion (my siblings and their kids are religious - not Jewish), you could similarly say "even though they're happy being raised in their religion, they have no way to know whether they would prefer to have been raised agnostic/atheist" (or some other religion)

Of course that's true for many decisions parents make on behalf of their children.

I am curious if folks in this thread are similarly incensed by young children having their ears pierced? It's obviously different, but it still seems like a cultural decision.

To my knowledge (having only learned about it incidentally during the pregnancy/birthing process since it wasn't a relevant decision) it didn't seem like circumcision had strong medical recommendations for or against

Re: Circumcision classed as possible child abuse in draft CPS document

#37

Post by odyssey7 »

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #17

> “enormously powerful symbolic act of identity”. That's revolting in a way. Identity OF THE PARENT, not of the baby who definitely doesn't know. And maybe the teenager doesn't want to have that identity, but now it's too late

Also: given the historic role of circumcision in religious and cultural conversion, one could view infant circumcision as removing that possibility for certain religious or cultural conversions later in life. In this sense, it might be viewed as culturally immunizing as well as being a cultural marker.

Re: Circumcision classed as possible child abuse in draft CPS document

#38

Post by 9x39 »

wrsh07 wrote: post #36
9x39 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those that are happy it was done to them specifically as babies Who have no way to know whether they would prefer to not have it done. It’s not FGM, but it’s in the realm of it relative to reduced sensory ability.

In general, I'm surprised by the vitriol in these comments. I think your claim proves too much: If you pick a different religion (my siblings and their kids are religious - not Jewish), you could similarly say "even though they're happy being raised in their religion, they have no way to know whether they would prefer to have been raised agnostic/atheist" (or some other religion) Of course that's true for many decisi…

You can stretch it to religion, if you consider being inculcated in a certain religion a 1-way door.

Circumcision removes nerve endings and results in an exposed glans, which thickens the skin and further dulls its nerve endings. This is a 1-way reduction in sexual capacity, which the child doesn't have any say in. Comparing it to ear piercing isn't the same, which, while cartilage doesn't heal easily, there's no sexual sensation interaction and leaving piercings empty tends to reverse them over time.

Re: Circumcision classed as possible child abuse in draft CPS document

#39

Post by GeoAtreides »

foxglacier wrote: post #34
just_the_tip2 wrote: post #26

In 1996 the Federal Prohibition of Female Genital Mutilation Act made it illegal to perform FGM on minors for non-medical reasons, and in 2013 the Transport for Female Genital Mutilation Act prohibited transporting a minor out of the country for the purpose of FGM. Male genital mutilation on minors for non-medical reasons should also be made illegal. It is amazing Medicaid still pays for it in many states. The Americ…

[flagged]

They're not different: they both irreversibly violate body autonomy for non-medical purposes.
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