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Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

electrek.co

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Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#31

Post by panick21_ »

nebula8804 wrote: post #21
jijijijij wrote: post #15

Walmart learned 20 years ago, not everyone wants the American way of life. Guess, US hubris entails the inability to learn from such mistakes. Thanks for the factory.

Man the US is the last giant standing. If the capitalists lose there, its game over. Before the events of the last few years I thought that maybe ultimately they were going to run to Israel or China if they lost the US. Both places are on shaky ground so probably not. If the US falls to Democratic Socialism, we could have a European style system across the entire western world. I hope to see it in my life. Maybe that…

Very strange assessment. First of all Europe isn't democratic socialism. Its social democratic and in pretty much every European country the social democrats kicked out the socialists from the party or marginalized them.

By the actual numbers, social spending and so on, the US isn't that incredibly different from Europe. And Europe is by any definition capitalist.

And the US has plenty of regulation, so its not really unchecked, its just differently checked.

> finally kills this "unchecked capitalism" virus for enough time for humans to enter the next era successfully.

This is just incredibly simplistics marxist 'stages of history' thinking and almost completely useless. If the US adopt European regulation we wouldn't 'enter a new era'.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#32

Post by ziml77 »

nebula8804 wrote: post #16
CamperBob2 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Why Musk made such a hard-right turn politically, alienating most of his customers. People on the left were always far more likely to buy an EV than those on the right. I believe a couple of things happened over the last few years that basically broke him. One factor may have been his daughter coming out as trans, and I have a feeling that another factor was a realization that his ambition to start a Mars colony w…

I mean his first wife(mother of that trans daughter) wrote the following about him in 2010: "Still, there were warning signs. As we danced at our wedding reception, Elon told me, "I am the alpha in this relationship." I shrugged it off, just as I would later shrug off signing the postnuptial agreement, but as time went on, I learned that he was serious. He had grown up in the male-dominated culture of South Africa, a…

I'm glad you have some evidence of it being nothing remotely new. Reading these comments I was starting to feel like I was crazy for remembering that he had always been pretty nasty.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#33

Post by specialist »

nebula8804 wrote: post #26
lovich wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The sales didn't materialize plus they were forced to do so by governments and short term investors that saw Tesla's stock shoot up. Now GM is writing off ~7 billion dollars. Whats worse is when Dems take back the white house, they will force the automakers to go back to green again. Ah yes, the terrible force of getting EV subsidies, which the Republicans have now cancelled causing the writeoff. How dare the Dems f…

The $7,500 credit is not really what I am talking about. Most of the 7 Billion in investment came during the Biden years due to pressure (from the administration as well as investors). So the industry complied, spent the money, built all these factories, terminated ICE programs and supply chains and now they are forced to write off a lot of this investment because the market is not there in the US.

GM, Ford, etc. recognize the existential threat posed by Chinese competition, proactively pivoted, then had those efforts sabotaged, with prejudice.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#34

Post by testing22321 »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #6
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

They’ll end up selling it to a German automaker who isn’t anti union. Tesla sales in Europe are mostly over and unlikely to recover, for obvious reasons. Musk did the Germans a favor, built a whole factory for them to buy at distressed pricing.

> for obvious reasons I will never understand two things: 1. Why Musk made such a hard-right turn politically, alienating most of his customers. People on the left were always far more likely to buy an EV than those on the right. 2. Why traders continue to buy Tesla stock even as sales nose-dive. Because of the promise of Robotaxis? Tesla's P/E is so high that the Tesla Robotaxi would have to sell more rides than Ube…

> and other car makes are slowing down or cancelling EV developments.

Only to US automakers are doing that, and that’s thanks to Trump gutting the EPA emissions regulations (I.e. V8s are back in everything!!!!)

All the US automakers are dead in 5-10 years anyway, it’s just prolonging the inevitable.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#35

Post by testing22321 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

They’ll end up selling it to a German automaker who isn’t anti union. Tesla sales in Europe are mostly over and unlikely to recover, for obvious reasons. Musk did the Germans a favor, built a whole factory for them to buy at distressed pricing.

> They’ll end up selling it to a German automaker who isn’t anti union

None of them can compete with BYD.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#36

Post by toomuchtodo »

testing22321 wrote: post #35
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

They’ll end up selling it to a German automaker who isn’t anti union. Tesla sales in Europe are mostly over and unlikely to recover, for obvious reasons. Musk did the Germans a favor, built a whole factory for them to buy at distressed pricing.

> They’ll end up selling it to a German automaker who isn’t anti union None of them can compete with BYD.

The German government cannot afford to lose domestic auto production (it employs ~770k workers), even if they must subsidize and be protectionist. I suppose BYD could buy it as well.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#37

Post by tsoukase »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #6
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

They’ll end up selling it to a German automaker who isn’t anti union. Tesla sales in Europe are mostly over and unlikely to recover, for obvious reasons. Musk did the Germans a favor, built a whole factory for them to buy at distressed pricing.

> for obvious reasons I will never understand two things: 1. Why Musk made such a hard-right turn politically, alienating most of his customers. People on the left were always far more likely to buy an EV than those on the right. 2. Why traders continue to buy Tesla stock even as sales nose-dive. Because of the promise of Robotaxis? Tesla's P/E is so high that the Tesla Robotaxi would have to sell more rides than Ube…

Obviously the high stock price is not justified by any current fact but it's the result of years of his successful endeavours and momentum and the investors hope he will come with a new breakthrough idea, which is becoming more and more difficult and unlikely. No emperor in history stood still for a long time showing hubris.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#38

Post by vga42 »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #6
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

They’ll end up selling it to a German automaker who isn’t anti union. Tesla sales in Europe are mostly over and unlikely to recover, for obvious reasons. Musk did the Germans a favor, built a whole factory for them to buy at distressed pricing.

> for obvious reasons I will never understand two things: 1. Why Musk made such a hard-right turn politically, alienating most of his customers. People on the left were always far more likely to buy an EV than those on the right. 2. Why traders continue to buy Tesla stock even as sales nose-dive. Because of the promise of Robotaxis? Tesla's P/E is so high that the Tesla Robotaxi would have to sell more rides than Ube…

>1. Why Musk made such a hard-right turn politically, alienating most of his customers. People on the left were always far more likely to buy an EV than those on the right.

Yeah, makes no sense. Also anecdotally, I bought their EV out of concern for the environment and the thought that oil should be consumed as little as possible for geopolitical reasons.

Philip Low, a long-time peer and friend of Elon Musk offered one theory shortly after the nazi salutes: https://old.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/1ibajmf/philip_l... (sorry about the format, couldn't find a better source)

He claims that Musk is just attracted to power and trolling, and will do both cynically instead of from any kind of principles. He guesses that Musk was worried at the time of losing the support of some actual nazis in the actual US government and wanted to signal them publically.

I'm not sure if a cynical nazi supporter is better or worse than an actual nazi. Could be worse, because those are the people who could and should be making better choices.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#39

Post by watwut »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #6
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

They’ll end up selling it to a German automaker who isn’t anti union. Tesla sales in Europe are mostly over and unlikely to recover, for obvious reasons. Musk did the Germans a favor, built a whole factory for them to buy at distressed pricing.

> for obvious reasons I will never understand two things: 1. Why Musk made such a hard-right turn politically, alienating most of his customers. People on the left were always far more likely to buy an EV than those on the right. 2. Why traders continue to buy Tesla stock even as sales nose-dive. Because of the promise of Robotaxis? Tesla's P/E is so high that the Tesla Robotaxi would have to sell more rides than Ube…

What turn? He did radicalized, sure, but there is no sign of him to be fundamentally different in the past.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#40

Post by watwut »

nebula8804 wrote: post #21
jijijijij wrote: post #15

Walmart learned 20 years ago, not everyone wants the American way of life. Guess, US hubris entails the inability to learn from such mistakes. Thanks for the factory.

Man the US is the last giant standing. If the capitalists lose there, its game over. Before the events of the last few years I thought that maybe ultimately they were going to run to Israel or China if they lost the US. Both places are on shaky ground so probably not. If the US falls to Democratic Socialism, we could have a European style system across the entire western world. I hope to see it in my life. Maybe that…

Capitalists already lost. What republican party created is crony highly corrupt capitalism - that does not create competition but will make US look kind of like south america or russia.

USA is on the path to oligarch run fiefdoms and not capitalism in its original sense.

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