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Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

donutlab.com

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Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#31

Post by Electricniko »

jaggs wrote: post #8
tedk-42 wrote: post #3

I'm very skeptical of any company that just 'pops up' and makes a bunch of claims that will shake up the industry. I doubt they'd sell to endusers, but not having any partnerships with established brands with sales figures is a big red flag. No mention of manufacturing capabilities either so I think it's just hype (or worse a rug pull for early investors)

Um... Did nobody see the Verge motorbike which is now shipping as standard with this battery? And the three companies which are also deploying the new battery tech? If this is a scam, it's definitely a very very sophisticated one.

I don't know about a scam, but the EV skateboard they're using has been available for other companies to use for a few years, while the other two companies share the same leadership as Donut/Verge and appear to be founded within the last few months. The battery may be great, but the multiple company launch seems a bit of a marketing gimmick.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#32

Post by jimt1234 »

jaggs wrote: post #8
tedk-42 wrote: post #3

I'm very skeptical of any company that just 'pops up' and makes a bunch of claims that will shake up the industry. I doubt they'd sell to endusers, but not having any partnerships with established brands with sales figures is a big red flag. No mention of manufacturing capabilities either so I think it's just hype (or worse a rug pull for early investors)

Um... Did nobody see the Verge motorbike which is now shipping as standard with this battery? And the three companies which are also deploying the new battery tech? If this is a scam, it's definitely a very very sophisticated one.

Not necessarily a scam, but it smells like more hype that reality. For example, the web page boasts "2000+ test rides complete", which basically says nothing.

I hope this battery tech and the statements on the web page are true (370-mile range from an electric motorcycle!), but I'm not writing any checks just yet.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#33

Post by tyleo »

Animats wrote: post #6
tedk-42 wrote: post #3

I'm very skeptical of any company that just 'pops up' and makes a bunch of claims that will shake up the industry. I doubt they'd sell to endusers, but not having any partnerships with established brands with sales figures is a big red flag. No mention of manufacturing capabilities either so I think it's just hype (or worse a rug pull for early investors)

Agreed. But you can supposedly book a test ride on a Verge motorcycle with this battery.[1] Verge has three stores in California, two of which are in Silicon Valley. Base price $35,000 with the good battery. Solid state batteries have been working for a while now, but they're still far too expensive. Mercedes has one demo car. Ducati has one demo motorcycle. Maybe they just decided to accept the high cost and sell a…

Yeah, I’m wondering if it could be a Tesla strategy of starting with the something imperfect but niche.

If the product is on the market and you can buy one and walk out the door, I feel like claims can easily be validated or invalidated with a tear down.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#34

Post by jmward01 »

Extraordinary claims come up all the time in the battery world. The thing is though with so many claims popping up all the time a few actually turn out to be true on a pretty regular basis. We will see if this is among them! At the pace battery technology is advancing I can almost believe this isn't actually that bold of a claim actually.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#35

Post by jimt1234 »

cloudfudge wrote: post #13

From the donutlab page: > It can be charged to full in just five minutes without limiting charging to 80%, and supports full discharge safely, repeatedly, and reliably. From the motorcycle youtube video[1]: > delivers up to 370 miles (600 km) of range and adds up to 186 miles (300 km) in under 10 minutes One is claiming 100% in 5 minutes, and the other is claiming ~50% in 10 minutes. Why are their claims so different…

It could just be me, but that video looks like AI.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#36

Post by s0rce »

macintux wrote: post #28
Animats wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can supposedly go see the bike at the Verge store at Westfield Valley Fair, 2855 Stevens Creek Blvd., Santa Clara, CA 95050-6709. That's a large mall near Apple HQ. Open until 9 PM. Someone in Silicon Valley should stop by on their way home today and take a picture. You can't just pay $35,000 and ride it away, though. They're just taking pre-orders. Still, at least you can go kick the tires and make sure it's not…

Any good way to visually establish whether the battery is solid state, however?

Probably not visually, you could poke a hole in it and see if there is liquid inside. X-ray imaging may be sufficient to differentiate from conventional cell designs.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#37

Post by jmward01 »

aappleby wrote: post #21
ZeWaka wrote: post #14

Some speculation from friends that I was reading is that the battery could be Sodium-based, there's another battery startup in Finland using that same tech. No spec sheets though.

Sodium ion battery energy density is too low for anything but bulk storage.

BYD would disagree with you [1]. A lot of weight is the packaging. Sodium ion is a lot safer so it generally needs less packaging (at least that is my understanding).

[1] https://thenextavenue.com/2025/07/23/how-byds-sodium-ion-bat...

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#40

Post by sfink »

bigwheels wrote: post #26

[flagged]

Based wholly on the claims in the article:

[x] it is impractical to manufacture at scale.

[?] it will be too expensive for users.

(Cost unknown, but it's part of a $35K motorcycle, which somewhat limits the possible range unless there's VC chum involved.)

[x] it suffers from too few recharge cycles.

[x] it is incapable of delivering current at sufficient levels.

(Motorcycle, again.)

[x] it lacks thermal stability at low or high temperatures.

[x] it lacks the energy density to make it sufficiently portable.

(400 Wh/kg is better than Li-Ion)

[x] it has too short of a lifetime.

[x] its charge rate is too slow.

[x] its materials are too toxic.

[x] it is too likely to catch fire or explode.

[x] it is too minimal of a step forward for anybody to care.

[x] this was already done 20 years ago and didn't work then.

[x] by this time it ships li-ion advances will match it.

(not directly addressed, but in combination with the rest, I'll give this a pass.)

[?] your claims are lies.

It kinda looks like they read through this exact list and addressed every item but the last. Where by "addressed", I mean simply that: they made a claim regarding the item.

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