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US Government demands access to European police databases and biometrics [video]

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Re: US Government demands access to European police databases and biometrics [video]

#31

Post by mittensc »

bpodgursky wrote: post #15

This is for the visa-free travel program (VWP). The US wants to check whether people who show up for vacation without a visa have a criminal record. If European countries don't want to grant access that's their right, but it's not at all an unreasonable thing for the US to want access to, if the data exists and is easy to check. If someone is a convicted sex trafficker or drug dealer or whatever, I'm fully in favor o…

so the EU should have access to the US database as well?

Given visa-free travel of US citizens?

Re: US Government demands access to European police databases and biometrics [video]

#32

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

bpodgursky wrote: post #27
Arodex wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, amongst all the examples you could choose, you had to give a xenophobic example. There were no other example you could think of. You are seriously stating that the country who elected a sex offender (on top a being many other things like being a con man and an insurrectionist who tried to overturn a legitimate election and got away with it - hey, isn't that "offenses with "mitigating" cultural factors puni…

I picked the example of under-sentencing (and early release) which most people accept is the most clearly applicable. The fact that you know exactly what I'm talking about based on a very general statement about sex offense, is strong evidence you know it's true. In terms of rhetoric, you can argue that Donald Trump is bad for his alleged sex crimes, or you can argue that the US is wrong for vetting tourists, but you…

>you can argue that Donald Trump is bad for his alleged sex crimes

Alleged? Convicted by a jury.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/breaking-down-the-verdict-...

Re: US Government demands access to European police databases and biometrics [video]

#33

Post by expedition32 »

bpodgursky wrote: post #24
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. If people crime, are convicted, and serve their time, I'd say they paid their debt. I know some people don't think that way though. Better hope they never find themselves in that situation.

For a variety of reasons, it's pretty common in many western countries for convicted first/second offenders even for pretty serious crimes to not serve much time. You see that in the UK for sex crimes for example, where offenses with "mitigating" cultural factors are punished extremely lightly. Which again is that country's choice, but it's not one that countries accepting their tourists are obligated to accept.

A country has the full right to deny entry to anyone for whatever reason.

We have had instances of that in the Netherlands with religious folks who wanted to give hate speech tours. The government just stops them at the airport customs control.

It is ofcourse potentially a diplomatic shit storm.

Re: US Government demands access to European police databases and biometrics [video]

#34

Post by ronsor »

Havoc wrote: post #4

10 years ago this wouldn’t have been a big deal but don’t think the US in its current form should be given access

I like how your take-away is "the US is untrustworthy now" instead of a more general "tracking databases will always be abused eventually."

Re: US Government demands access to European police databases and biometrics [video]

#35

Post by bpodgursky »

ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #32
bpodgursky wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I picked the example of under-sentencing (and early release) which most people accept is the most clearly applicable. The fact that you know exactly what I'm talking about based on a very general statement about sex offense, is strong evidence you know it's true. In terms of rhetoric, you can argue that Donald Trump is bad for his alleged sex crimes, or you can argue that the US is wrong for vetting tourists, but you…

>you can argue that Donald Trump is bad for his alleged sex crimes Alleged? Convicted by a jury. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/breaking-down-the-verdict-...

I was not really intending to lump civil trials into the discussion because of the lower evidential standard than criminal trials, but sure, I don't really care.

Re: US Government demands access to European police databases and biometrics [video]

#36

Post by ben_w »

ronsor wrote: post #34
Havoc wrote: post #4

10 years ago this wouldn’t have been a big deal but don’t think the US in its current form should be given access

I like how your take-away is "the US is untrustworthy now" instead of a more general "tracking databases will always be abused eventually."

"One of the current big supporters of freedom may hate and oppose your freedom during your lifetime" has always been a very hard sell.

Show them examples of a free place becoming unfree? "Oh, we're different, that can't happen here".

Re: US Government demands access to European police databases and biometrics [video]

#37

Post by Kim_Bruning »

bpodgursky wrote: post #21
Kim_Bruning wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US wants to check whether people who show up for vacation without a visa have a criminal record. Surprisingly, (at least some) European countries will tell you directly whether someone has a specific criminal record (given that someone's consent.) If that's what the US wanted, then that could be given directly. But that's not what the US is asking for.

lol no, I don't think the US is asking for the subset of criminal records which the criminals have consented to sharing.

eg.

https://www.justis.nl/en/products/certificate-of-conduct

Idea being they could request a relevant certificate of conduct, which is only issued if your record is clean. No certificate means no access.

Re: US Government demands access to European police databases and biometrics [video]

#38

Post by stoneman24 »

bpodgursky wrote: post #15

This is for the visa-free travel program (VWP). The US wants to check whether people who show up for vacation without a visa have a criminal record. If European countries don't want to grant access that's their right, but it's not at all an unreasonable thing for the US to want access to, if the data exists and is easy to check. If someone is a convicted sex trafficker or drug dealer or whatever, I'm fully in favor o…

If I remember correctly, the visa free travel (esta) asks about arrests as part of the information. Even if you were never charged, never trialled, declared innocent at trial. I would imagine that this would include a uk police caution as well. For all matters, even if under uk law, these are minor and spent (no longer needed to be declared within the uk).

Just mention the UK, but I am sure that other countries have thier own procedures but the US wants all the details for thier own examination.

Re: US Government demands access to European police databases and biometrics [video]

#39

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

MassiveSchtick wrote: post #12

Wait, so they want unrestricted access to all databases or only access the entries for those that travel to the US?

They're presenting the Visa Waiver Programme as conditional so my read is that it's access pertaining to ESTA applicants.

Sounds like another drive-by meant to burn another bridge with EU.

Re: US Government demands access to European police databases and biometrics [video]

#40

Post by belter »

dystopiandevel wrote: post #30
belter wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dont be naive.

Don't be rude. Provide a thoughtful response.

One way only right now...

https://www.statewatch.org/news/2025/december/us-access-to-e...

EU is trying to negotiate the other way, it will get nowhere.

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