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Hacking Washing Machines [video]

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Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#31
post #18
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm assuming it's to prevent moisture from corroding a port of some kind. The primary value discussed in the talk was electrical isolation since there's mains voltage in the appliance and the potential for shorts or inadequate isolation would require some kind of isolation, so a path that optically isolates the communication makes quite a bit of sense. I'm also curious if other devices have gone this route.

Alternatively, I guess you could also use really thin cables to carry the low voltage paths; and that act as fuses, if ever a lot of current at high voltage was flowing across them? But probably not very reliable both in regular operation and as fuses. We have a Miele washing machine and a Miele dryer. Solid machines all around even after years of use.

Fusible traces aren’t uncommon - but they would effectively destroy the device if current limits are exceeded, and they certainly would be if the power supply is non-isolated, so it wouldn’t actually be a solution to the firmware update problem.

The usual solution here is an optical coupling of some kind - optocouplers (a box with a LED, photodiode, and air gap between them) are very common for this purpose, and are an inexpensive and effective option for digital signaling across an isolation boundary.

In this case they’ve basically built a custom optocoupler out of discrete components, which is a bit unusual, but makes sense when you consider the risk of corrosion due to water ingress at the diagnostic ports, and the need to access it while - for example - a dishwasher cycle is running.

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#32

When I read 'Hacking washing machines' the first thing that came to mind was how to open that damn thing once the program had finished.

Most washing machines use a wax motor to lock the door, it heats up wax to cause it to expand when it melts, which drives a pin. They're fairly failsafe as if you kill power, they will open no matter what. Latching relays/(technically solenoid) could be driven on/off fast, the downside is in a power cut or an emergency, the relay wouldn't release unless specifically driven so. So the third option is a momentary solen…

You can still buy machines without the lid lock. They use an alternative design that can stop motion quickly enough to meet safety standards. I can open the lid on my washer in the middle of a heavy spin cycle at max RPM if I want to, but it will brake aggressively and come to a halt within 1-2 seconds. Being able to add laundry mid-cycle without asking permission from the computer is really nice.

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#33
Very interesting talk! I think it is quite cool that Miele and BSH reached out when they saw the event announcements to make sure there are not any issues they're not aware of. Seems like a productive experience for all involved!

The WiFi implementation was interesting to me, I am glad that it is reasonably safe. I understand much of the skepticism around these kinds of features, but I also see the value in many settings. As long as they remain optional, I think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Kudos for BSH having good developer documentation and a local mode. I feel like a local mode should be mandatory, for safety and support reasons

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#35
Makes me appreciate our landlord's electro-mechanical "music-box" washing machine.

It has been working for 25 years with no servicing, except when it "broke" once about 5 years ago. So I just opened it, stared at it for a while, and after considering the symptoms (no click in the door locking mechanism but power indicator light turning on), I realized the issue will be with something very early on in the fixed washing cycle, before the timing motor gets activated, and there will be no serious electrical damage elsewhere (fuse intact). So I looked at the door locking mechanism (bi-metalic thing) and noticed that the cable connector leading to it was slightly shifted. Re-seated the connector, and the machine started working again.

While it was open, I didn't notice anything horrible (corrosion, leaks, nothing). Probably the next thing that will "break" will be when the motor's carbon brushes will "run out". :)

You can understand and diagnose these things even without knowing too much. That's how obvious, simple, and accessible the electro-mechanical design is.

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#36
post #2

Pretty cool for BSH and Miele to hop on a call with the researchers just to make sure there were no issues they were unaware of. Sounded like it was productive and positive for everyone involved. Hopefully they don't start doubling down on hardware security though :p The optical communication for the Miele was pretty interesting too. I'm assuming it's to prevent moisture from corroding a port of some kind. Does anyon…

> The optical communication for the Miele was pretty interesting too. I'm assuming it's to prevent moisture from corroding a port of some kind.

IRDA was very popular at one point and still lives on in applications like these. It's an IR serial port hung off a UART. It's stupid simple requiring no cables, pairing, or complex protocol stacks. Some smart phones have IR blasters built in so its a total win for ease of deployment in cases like these.

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#37
The video brought me back to my internship in the early 2010s. My job was testing the new US ovens (which for us Europeans are massive). The bus was amazing. Integrated into a LabView setup, you could basically collect any readings from the oven as well as remotely control it. Also, it was super easy to confirm "manual" actions (e.g. soleniods pushing buttons/motors turning knobs).

A few other interesting tasks I was involved back then were:

- smashing an oven's door until the hinges would give up - testing new heating elements in the open (basically, building a gigantic grill) - appliance transport packaging tests - cooking and baking on a daily basis to make sure food turns out as expected

Overall, home appliances are a great product as an engineer to work on. It is a product you usually use multiple times a day. And if you love cooking yourself, even better :-)

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#38

What is the point in the WiFi? All I am interested in is something that washes my clothes. Not something with endless updates and glitches that ger fixed in post.

It'll tell you when your clothes have finished washing so you can transfer them to the dryer and/or start a new load.

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#39
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you see you just need to buy specially marked boxes of Cap'n Crunch that have a plastic whistle in them that plays the tones for you.

I wonder how many HN readers still get that reference (and 2600, etc.)

I'm merely middle aged, but I've read the hacker lore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_box

Re: Hacking Washing Machines [video]

#40
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's some advanced gatekeeping right there. Where other appliances might have a blink code or several digit error display (Miele) to look up in a manual, the phone method tires you to the manufacturer.

The support hotline will ask you to hold your phone towards the device. It is less error-prone (than a human) and contains more info than a blink code. I find it really clever.

Sure it's clever. But it also means you can't repair the appliance without the manufacturer's server to decode it for you.
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