Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 154 posts

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#31

Post by camiller »

jakubp wrote: post #6

I'm confused. Is this article saying that in the US it's illegal for a maker of the product to sell the product to whomever he wants? How is that helping anyone but the dealerships?

Say for example there are five Chevy dealerships in the greater Omaha area. If General Motors were allowed to own one itself it could give itself discounts internally such that it could undersell the other dealers and put them out of business. Once the competition was gone it could then raise prices harming consumers. Competition is good for consumers and the laws in question are aimed at protecting consumers.

Yes I know they are also competing with other brands, but some people are brand loyal enough that they would not switch to Ford or Chrysler.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#32

Post by lysol »

tzaman wrote: post #26

True story (mine): I knew a car dealer that made it very clear to me that if I buy the new car from him (and leave the old one there for a lower price) he'll give me significant discount. I said to myself "can't hurt to try" and went this route. The next day after owning the car (which I still own) the new owner of my old car called to ask what's the realistic condition. Turns out the dealer sold him the car for abou…

This is normal. The dealer makes very little from a new car. They have to recoup that from trade-ins and selling used cars, which have a higher margin. New cars don't offer a lot of wiggle room because the invoice price for them is set, and they already sell them for little profit.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#33

Post by aleyan »

tomrod wrote: post #14
jakubp wrote: post #6

I'm confused. Is this article saying that in the US it's illegal for a maker of the product to sell the product to whomever he wants? How is that helping anyone but the dealerships?

> How is that helping anyone but the dealerships? It's not.

> > How is that helping anyone but the dealerships? > It's not.

That was my initial though as well, but I came up with at least one case where survival of the dealerships is critical to an open market place.

If all stores were owned by car manufacturers, that would be a significant barrier to entry of new automakers. Not only do new entrants have to build a car company, but now they have to create a new distribution network as well at the same time.

That said, Tesla is a new car company and creating a new distribution network for them does not seem that big an issue.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#34

Post by talmand »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #21
talmand wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be a rather unpleasant experience, plus it makes me feel bad to immediately hate the person before I get to know his/her style of selling. I know it's unfair but when that salesperson walks up I'm immediately "just go away and leave me alone". Plus the sad fact is that the salesperson is the middleman of the manager, who is the middleman of the financier, who is the middleman of the dealership. There are proba…

> Why can't cars be sold just like any other product? Because then they run the risk of getting Amazon'd or Wal-Mart'd.

Why is that a risk? What's wrong with ordering a car from Amazon?

Or do you mean it's a risk from the dealers' perspective? Because I get that and personally don't care.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#35

Post by praptak »

cs702 wrote: post #3

Anyone who's ever bought a car knows firsthand how unpleasant it is to deal with traditional car dealers. The price of every vehicle is fully negotiable but the negotiating room is opaque.[1] Key car features and options are bundled in arbitrary packages and priced in ways that make pricing even more opaque. Car salesmen (they're typically men) almost always have a fake smile on their face and come across as smooth-t…

> The price of every vehicle is fully negotiable but the negotiating room is opaque. Key car features and options are bundled in arbitrary packages and priced in ways that make pricing even more opaque.

This is my ongoing remark on this topic: walking into a particular dealership is a mistake. You're making it hard for yourself to use your only negotiation asset - the option to go elsewhere. Figure out the features you need and contact multiple dealerships for a quote. This sets up a much more better game for you. But yeah, dealerships still suck.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#36

Post by dkokelley »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #21
talmand wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be a rather unpleasant experience, plus it makes me feel bad to immediately hate the person before I get to know his/her style of selling. I know it's unfair but when that salesperson walks up I'm immediately "just go away and leave me alone". Plus the sad fact is that the salesperson is the middleman of the manager, who is the middleman of the financier, who is the middleman of the dealership. There are proba…

> Why can't cars be sold just like any other product? Because then they run the risk of getting Amazon'd or Wal-Mart'd.

I'm not sure what being Amazon'd or Wal-Mart'd is. Are you talking about commoditization?

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#37

Post by talmand »

jwr wrote: post #20

Today I found out that USA (arguably the most libertarian country on earth, as far as business is concerned) has strict laws governing the sale of vehicles, said laws actually preventing companies from selling vehicles. I find that quite amazing.

We have strict laws governing the sales and services of all kinds of things. Some of them are good, some are bad. The strictness and enforcement of these laws can also range from state-to-state.

The problem with some of these laws are that often they were written with the idea of protecting a business concern to maintain their advantage over, and to the detriment of, the consumer.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#38

Post by Terretta »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #21
talmand wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be a rather unpleasant experience, plus it makes me feel bad to immediately hate the person before I get to know his/her style of selling. I know it's unfair but when that salesperson walks up I'm immediately "just go away and leave me alone". Plus the sad fact is that the salesperson is the middleman of the manager, who is the middleman of the financier, who is the middleman of the dealership. There are proba…

> Why can't cars be sold just like any other product? Because then they run the risk of getting Amazon'd or Wal-Mart'd.

Costco'd: http://www.costcoauto.com/

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#39

Post by rickdale »

"If, after the sales pitch, you’re ready to pull the trigger, you are politely directed to a computer to make your deposit and place your order."

Sounds like their business model will be left for a judge to decide. I think people on HN are angry because the auto industry feels like a monopoly and the law that Tesla might be infringing on should be illegal any ways. But what the judge wil have to decide is whether Tesla's interpretation of the law is correct. In normal cases this could take a pretty long time and Tesla would be able to operate until a judge says otherwise.

Without reading the law I would like to think that Tesla is onto something here. Just like the rest of the angry HN users, I would feel satisfied to know that the big auto industry wrote a law for their own benefit and technology passed them by.

Re: Auto Dealers Whine That Tesla Stores Are Illegal

#40

Post by pi18n »

jakubp wrote: post #6

I'm confused. Is this article saying that in the US it's illegal for a maker of the product to sell the product to whomever he wants? How is that helping anyone but the dealerships?

I heard there's one state where you need a license to do interior design, how is that for bullshit legislation?
Post reply on HN