The importance of learning some sort of social intelligence is so underrated. You see all these front page posts on hacker news "I taught my 5 year old son and daughter how to program in five different languages" like its something that will really better these children's lives. You want a happy successful kid? Teach them the art of being social and having meaningful interactions with other people. I've wasted so much of my life trying to be the best student or programmer I could possibly be. I turned 24 this year and I'm proud of how well I've done and what I've accomplished in my career to date, but without friends to enjoy it with, success is pretty shallow.
How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize
31–40 of 95 posts
Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize
#32I've tried stuff like this. The problem is that my brain gives me wrong/negative interpretations of the other person's emotions most of the time, and I leave almost every social interaction feeling like a failure. This naturally feeds back on itself. Anyone else dealt with something similar?
I hear you. I do feel that, like many other skills, this also can be learned and mastered. There have been times when I've been pretty adept at recognizing and responding to signals. But over the past few years, I have lapsed.
Just as an example: today, at a talk, I was talking to this woman and we had a pleasant conversation. Then, as the talk is about to start, she says something to the effect of "I'd love to learn more about your work". My response (with a mouthful of pizza)? "Sure!". And then I focused back on the speaker as he was about to start speaking. Much later I realized she wanted to continue the conversation later, and wanted my card or some contact info. But by then she was gone (she left early).
So, for me, it's not that I don't pick up signals; I do pick up many, but they have a much lower priority in the brain's CPU and my responses don't incorporate the signals. My brain finally realizes the inputs way after the opportunity has passed.
Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize
#33No question about the practical value of any of this, as the power of these abilities has been discussed and dissected many times, but I'd like to make a brief case as to _why_ some find this distasteful, after many years of reading forums like this and talking to people who openly expressed hatred of it (it being non-verbal signals, subtext, etc.) First, there is the issue of merit. It seems like this grants those w…
I can appreciate why this comment is so up-voted. It's easy for us to think in terms of black and white, binary, here are the lines, true and false if statements.
But on both points, the analysis is still coming from the same mindset/framework of thinking.
On the issue of merit, if you can't communicate about the merit, the merit might as well not exist. In a case where someone has merit to solve a problem, but not the social skills to properly communicate, the person is very similar to a computer program that can receive input and provide output. Computers are great at following instructions to the letter, so much that if they do something wrong, it's usually the user's fault. But how often do we realize now that a program was designed ineffectively so that we now blame the application rather than the user (see any industrial design review), and how often do we wish we could implement machine learning capabilities that would allow the application to correctly guess what the user is really trying to do? People have the ability to adapt social interactions to the user (call it better AI) and also provide this dyanmic feedback (call it machine learning). We can rise above the level of dumb computers that receive input, provide output, and then blame the user if the output isn't actually what the user was looking for.
On the issue of radical honesty and transparency, and feeling very dishonest and ugly. I really can appreciate this, I can. But in learning to be empathetic to others (especially my mother, whose mind operates in a totally different manner than my own, leading to many arguments with her when I was younger and I'll admit more immature), I realize that for them not taking into considerations someone's feelings is equally ugly. The words I usually hear are "You don't know anything about my problem, stop acting like you do."
Basically in such interactions, I'm not helping, even if I'm right. If we want to speak about merit, the true test should not be my level of knowledge, but rather, did I solve the problem? If I can't solve the problem, how much is my merit really worth? That reminds me of this: http://xkcd.com/793/
Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It really is a learnable skill! ... We've just forgotten the habit as a society of teaching it to our children. I think that's a hasty generalization. Some people are merely introverted, and can improve their social intelligence through everyday practice. Others, however, actually have a neurological condition (i.e. Asperger's Syndrome, which the article mentions). At least for some subset of them, "social intellig…
I do find it interesting that we ask Aspies to become more empathetic, but we don't ask neurotipicals to become a little less hung up on social niceties. Obviously, neurotypicals get the benefit of the doubt for "how people should be", since there are so many more of them. But we don't ask gays to be straight, despite not being "normal", numerically, so why should we ask Aspies to be more empathetic? Why assume an As…
We do do this. Have you never been involved in a work conversation where someone says, "Get to the point, you're wasting everyone's time."
Have you never gone to someone to make a request, and you're starting out with a long spiel about your reasons, and the other person says, "Look, I'm busy, just tell me what it is you want."
I see these kinds of conversations a lot. It's not always in one direction.
Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize
#35I've tried stuff like this. The problem is that my brain gives me wrong/negative interpretations of the other person's emotions most of the time, and I leave almost every social interaction feeling like a failure. This naturally feeds back on itself. Anyone else dealt with something similar?
I never heard it phrased that way but yes, I feel the exact same way.
I realize now that I've learned to 'lean into the discomfort,' but I still have those feelings almost all the time...
Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do find it interesting that we ask Aspies to become more empathetic, but we don't ask neurotipicals to become a little less hung up on social niceties. Obviously, neurotypicals get the benefit of the doubt for "how people should be", since there are so many more of them. But we don't ask gays to be straight, despite not being "normal", numerically, so why should we ask Aspies to be more empathetic? Why assume an As…
We do do this. Have you never been involved in a work conversation where someone says, "Get to the point, you're wasting everyone's time." Have you never gone to someone to make a request, and you're starting out with a long spiel about your reasons, and the other person says, "Look, I'm busy, just tell me what it is you want." I see these kinds of conversations a lot. It's not always in one direction.
Yes, being busy is an excellent excuse to behave a bit like an Aspie, even if you're neurotypical.
Aspies (and introverts in general) thrive in environments where people are evaluated more on the basis of getting shit done quickly and accurately, and less on the basis of how often they drink with their boss. It's maker's schedule vs. manager's schedule all over again.
So, in a sense, modern societies' increasing emphasis on efficiency and productivity might work in favor of Aspies. So does urbanization, which allows you to disregard what your great-aunt's second cousin thinks about your new socks.
Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have had a growing hypothesis that my social intelligence with acquaintances and big groups (as opposed to close friends) is actually very bad. As is probably the case with most of us here, I didn't suspect this because my intelligence in all other arenas is excellent. I think I was further insulated from the problem because I was in small schools through high school, and never really felt socially deficient as a r…
"As is probably the case with most of us here, I didn't suspect this because my intelligence in all other arenas is excellent." I'd like to branch off from this comment a bit. What happens when your intelligence, like wealth (a comparison I recently started making), creates a gap between yourself and others? What happens when you want to talk about really interesting things ('go to a fancy restaurant') but others bas…
Completely agree with you, although I think it is more about the personal desire to learn than education in itself.
If you don't have the personal desire to learn in the first place, then I doubt that education can genuinely "teach" you this.
Where does this desire come from? It comes from within, so it can't be "taught" to most people who are unreceptive in the first place.
During my life of 27 years, I have met only a few other individuals with the same eagerness for self growth as I have, and hundreds of people who have no interest or concept of what self growth even means and dozens of additional people who are somewhere in between and use their social skills to manipulate other people instead of manipulating themselves to be better people.
Funny, funny world we live in!
Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
> After a couple of seconds the girl says "Maybe if you try swiping it in the middle it will help." Personally, I'd find that way of expressing it slightly annoying, though I'm not sure why. Perhaps because it's worded as a suggestion without saying why this suggestion is worth considering. Maybe if I tried swiping it while singing Yankee Doodle Dandy, it would also help? The way that I would word this sort of sugges…
My gut reaction to her way of expressing it was also negative, although I'd give her the benefit of the doubt in person because she's just trying to help. I think it's because it's condescending. In two ways - on one hand, it's pointing out something that's obvious in hindsight. On the other, it's blatantly trying to sugarcoat that it's obvious, as if you can't handle the fact that you don't know everything. I would'…
Hard to capture in text, but at the time she said it very simply, no impatience or bite. It didn't come across as at all condescending or sugar-coated, to me at least.
Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
"As is probably the case with most of us here, I didn't suspect this because my intelligence in all other arenas is excellent." I'd like to branch off from this comment a bit. What happens when your intelligence, like wealth (a comparison I recently started making), creates a gap between yourself and others? What happens when you want to talk about really interesting things ('go to a fancy restaurant') but others bas…
I've often made excuses to myself along the lines of "there are just fewer people I get along with because I'm gifted" or something like that. But I can't buy those completely, because there are plenty of people smarter than me who don't seem to have that problem. Edit: You might reframe what friends are for? Common interests are really important, but not an absolute necessity.
I was like this several years ago myself, the key is in being humble whilst still being argumentative without sounding like a wanker - it's possible!
Re: How Studying Body Language Changed the Way I Socialize
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
"As is probably the case with most of us here, I didn't suspect this because my intelligence in all other arenas is excellent." I'd like to branch off from this comment a bit. What happens when your intelligence, like wealth (a comparison I recently started making), creates a gap between yourself and others? What happens when you want to talk about really interesting things ('go to a fancy restaurant') but others bas…
I've often made excuses to myself along the lines of "there are just fewer people I get along with because I'm gifted" or something like that. But I can't buy those completely, because there are plenty of people smarter than me who don't seem to have that problem. Edit: You might reframe what friends are for? Common interests are really important, but not an absolute necessity.
>because there are plenty of people smarter than me who don't seem to have that problem.
They do have this problem. Since childhood they are surrounded by dumb and uninteresting people. Cynicism and distrust in the common sense of the fellow humans are already there by age of 12. But this is unproductive, and they make conscious effort to mingle, so they don't have to be alone all the time, have somebody to mate with, have playdates for their children, but it continues to be a struggle and sacrifice and they continue to stay intellectually alone.
There is a way out though - each typical step in society that is pre-programmed for smart people is also a filter - getting to school for gifted children, good university, then good, hard to get to, company, then changing it to better one filters out dumb people from your acquaintances and makes people around you nicer to talk to and easier to get along with. The downside is that they typically have not so stellar "emotional intelligence" as well, and, depending on occupation, there could be a gender bias (so mating within peer group could be problematic).