I’m a US sixth generation or more citizen and a scientist and I want to leave if the next election doesn’t go wildly different than the 2024 one. The brain drain is real. It’s sad to see it happen in your own country.
A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave
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Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave
#32Eventually leave. So compelling.
Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
not sure I understand, I read a lot of research papers from China.
My read: China is seen as a serious geopolitical rival that the United States must beat in a shooting or Cold or AI or war. As a result PHDs to China as an export would be a negative impact, not a positive one potentially.
When looking at China, this fable has been on my mind for the longest even as I’d hoped that market forces would liberalize it: https://fablesofaesop.com/the-eagle-and-the-arrow.html
Obviously, any hopes evaporated with China’s heavy-handed approach to Hong Kong.
Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave
#34Giving away? It's currently screaming in the ears and flogging the ass of everyone to get the fuck out and stay out.
Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave
#35Daughter in the Material Science Phd progam at major state university with "world class" MS program. Vast majority of her peers are from abroad. Met some. All were the nicest, smartest folks you have ever met. I guess a benefit is that the probability of them leaving may help to increase the teamwork aspect in the program. But that is a guess. Great group of folks who hopefully might help change the world. Went to the recent Phd presentation where recent Phd graduates were honored. Let me tell you... hard to describe how inspiring these folks are. (MS is a pretty hard subject, with amazing applications. You may be thanking one guy who recently got his Phd should you ever get cancer.) Glad our universities welcome talent not demographics. HTH, RF.
Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
While indeed a positive outlook, I think alot of Americans are beginning to wonder what the benefit will be to them. The isolationist and xenophobic rhetoric of recent years is mostly a reaction to a growing sense that increasingly few Americans are benefiting from global goodwill and development. While I dont agree with the sentiment, its not entirely incorrect to describe such relationships are parasitic more then…
The US is not "exporting" anything. PhDs are people, they pay for their education and they leave. Nevertheless responding to your question: >Contrary to common perceptions, US technology benefits from these graduates' work even if they leave: though the US share of global patent citations to graduates' science drops from 70% to 50% after migrating, it remains five times larger than the destination country share
STEM PhD students do not pay for their education
Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave
#37A more positive-sum view is that the US is bringing the rest of the world up in science every time it exports a PhD.
While indeed a positive outlook, I think alot of Americans are beginning to wonder what the benefit will be to them. The isolationist and xenophobic rhetoric of recent years is mostly a reaction to a growing sense that increasingly few Americans are benefiting from global goodwill and development. While I dont agree with the sentiment, its not entirely incorrect to describe such relationships are parasitic more then…
The US got talent for free for years; young people whose upbringing and education has been paid by/in a foreign country. The most expensive formative years had been paid for by the sponsoring country.
> The isolationist and xenophobic rhetoric of recent years is mostly a reaction to a growing sense that increasingly few Americans are benefiting from global goodwill and development
"Increasingly few Americans are" getting to evade the consequence of wealth concentration and monopolies. Large parts of the US economy have been starved by monopolist practices in the past decennia. I recently linked a very approachable documentary¹ from ARTE, in thee parts, if you want to understand what is really happening.
1. https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/103517-001-A/capitalism-in-ame...
Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave
#38A more positive-sum view is that the US is bringing the rest of the world up in science every time it exports a PhD.
I wonder if US still manages to keep the most promising?
Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave
#39The conversation has radically changed. 10-15 years ago my foreign grad students all wanted to stay. Only question was how. There was always a big crowd who found the process of staying in the US painful, random, humiliating, and sometimes even downright abusive, so they went home. What has really changed is China. That's what this paper shows too. Many of the Chinese students want go back home. 10-15 years ago when…
> China changing the narrative on dictatorships
There was no "change of narrative", the West just stopped delivering, similar to what happened to the Soviet system starting with the 1970s (and which ended the way it did by the early 1990s).
Re: A quarter of US-trained scientists eventually leave
#40The conversation has radically changed. 10-15 years ago my foreign grad students all wanted to stay. Only question was how. There was always a big crowd who found the process of staying in the US painful, random, humiliating, and sometimes even downright abusive, so they went home. What has really changed is China. That's what this paper shows too. Many of the Chinese students want go back home. 10-15 years ago when…
Even 10 years they wanted to stay. I was at Microsoft China at the time, and management would complain about Google or Facebook in CA still getting the best prospects from Qinghua/PKU. It wasn't about freedom or democracy at all, they just wanted big paychecks without the 996.
Today it is an easier case to stay, although 996 is still a thing. Still, if you can make your FU money by age 35 (and it still has to be by age 35 according to a relative), you have it set.